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USA shootings and gun laws

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I would hope that Americans would at least pause to evaluate any "war with Isam" self-serving rhetoric, in the same week they celebrated the life of Muhammad Ali.

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I guess my thinking is, if, say he wasn't prompted to do this by isil, itself, do I consider it a terrorist attack or the actions of one deranged person? When a Christian would bomb an abortion clinic, or shot its workers, is it terrorism?

 

Ok, I'm splitting hairs here. Cause regardless it is the horrific actions of one person, known to the fbi, known to be violent, working as a security guard and legally able to obtain gun licenses and purchase a hand gun and assault rifle! It seems to be multiple failings that contribute to this.

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Let's sit back and watch the white crazy gun nuts retaliate against mosques across the US.

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We only have one mosque in 'woomba, opposite my in-laws house. It's a burned out shell at the moment.

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Islam, the Koran, is specifically anti gay, in that same sex relations are prohibited.

 

Watching 2 men kiss doesn't promote a mass slaughter/execution. There is some background beyond

that.

 

I dont know many religions that are not anti gay though, K Man.

 

The press and the police really should refer to these sort of mass attacks as 'terrorism' . All it does if promote the cause. The press and in particular law enforcement seem almost excited to say its terror related. These are lone wolf attacks and have very little clear links to the fundamentalists.

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Announcing it as terrorism I think is used as a way to absolve the public and law enforcement of admitting there are some fundamental law and order issued in the US and enabling the gun lobby to further tool up so they can defend themselves against the "terror"

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The way current day Islamists interpret there religion is incomparable with a modern civilized society.

 

The regressive left hand wringers trying to pretend otherwise are doing more harm than good.

Islam is in desperate need of reform and trying to pretend it is fine is just not living with reality.

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The way current day religions interpret there religion is incomparable with a modern civilized society.

 

 

Fixed that for you

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Â

Â

Fixed that for you

Could have tidied up my their/there faux pa while you were at it.

 

But it is completely unrealistic to pretend that all religions are equally as harmful and incompatable with civilized modern society.

 

I'm sure you don't actually believe that. I think it's impossible for anyone who has an at least passing interest in world events truly believes that.

 

They are just trying to show how open minded they are.

 

It's actually pathetic.

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But it is completely unrealistic to pretend that all religions are equally as harmful and incompatable with civilized modern society.

 

Incompatible - totally, harmful - maybe not.

I think all religions have a lot to answer for and they all suffer from incredible narcissism.

For religions to believe their rules shouldn't be updated as humankind evolves is the height of arrogance.

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Â

Incompatible - totally, harmful - maybe not.

I think all religions have a lot to answer for and they all suffer from incredible narcissism.

For religions to believe their rules shouldn't be updated as humankind evolves is the height of arrogance.

Very true. Christianity has been through the enlightenment and obviously is more compatible with civilization than Islam, which has actually gone backwards in the last 40 years.

 

It is a big big problem now and arrogance is one of their more harmless qualities.

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While I don't get the whole gun culture over there and how full on it is, what I really don't understand is why an everyday average shmo like me would need to own an m16? Until we turn into the Star Trek united federation of planets, there is no chance that there is gonna be any change to gun ownership over there. It would just be nice to see it restricted to handguns and say bolt action rifles. It would be a start, but of course the duds over there require their m16's so they can protect themselves from actions like yesterday. Cause mass shooters are always stopped by civilians with guns!

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again; the first president that makes a serious move on gun control will be shot. Hence why no president has ever actually done anything more than give a tongue lashing.

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America's a lost cause. I heard a stat on the weekend there are 30 million of these M16 style guns already in circulation. Anything they do now will be shutting the gate after the horse has bolted but I suppose any effort to tighten up is better than nothing.

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While I don't get the whole gun culture over there and how full on it is, what I really don't understand is why an everyday average shmo like me would need to own an m16?

 

Boweling for Columbine explained it well. They are scared and their media keeps them that way...

 

 

Edited by MountainMan

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I should watch that some time.

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It would be a start, but of course the duds over there require their m16's so they can protect themselves from actions like yesterday. Cause mass shooters are always stopped by civilians with guns!

 

The weekend shootings have little to do with the guns lobby. Their biggest fear is governments taking away their 'freedoms' and they 'need' to be armed to fight their own countries army if required should they disagree with laws on removal of freedoms or taxation. The only way you are going to get them to willingly give up their guns, is to disarm the US army as well, and we know that isn't going to happen.

 

Read up on various militia around the US to get an idea on what the anti-gun lobby is up against. I have a relative in Colorado (those who have trained in Boulder are quite close to his 'base'), who is a decorated green beret from the Korean war. He's almost 80 now, but still very active in the Colorado militia with all 3 of his sons and they are armed to fight a small war should any government or government agency try to take away their freedom. They were very much against the Department of alcohol, firearms and tobacco taking out the cult in Waco and other acts similar. Timothy McVeigh was another member of another militia who bombed the Oklahoma building because they weren't happy with the government departments taking away their 'freedom'. That same relative can't believe that Australians gave up our guns so willingly, and thought Howard was the biggest betrayer of western society. Note that many of these militia have been around since independence war or civil war days. The sad thing is that most of the militia members have served in the US military and you have to wonder if it is in fact some sort of breeding ground for many of the militias.

 

This isn't about passing laws and having the guns handed in, pass the laws and it is likely to be a trigger for a new civil war. They have to be smart and find someway for disarming these groups first before any laws without starting gunfights all over the middle and southern states

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Just the complete absence of any form of logic or reasoning must bring into question their claim to be a civilised society. I like Americans I meet but there must be a genetic thing, or some sort of evolutionary process that has fast-tracked to allow them to think they need to be able to kill people as some sort of divine birthright.

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Just saw some interesting stuff on The Project.

 

Reports are now coming in that this guy has frequently visited this club as a patron, and several others as well. People who knew him at school are saying he had approached them looking for a relationship, and his online activity shows him frequenting gay websites and dating sites. Apparently on the night he entered the club and was drinking in the corner.

 

They also said if he was suspected of anything, the president could put him on a no fly list, but there is nothing he could have done to prevent him legally purchasing the guns. Too dangerous to fly, but owning guns is safe enough.

Edited by goughy

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Just the complete absence of any form of logic or reasoning must bring into question their claim to be a civilised society. I like Americans I meet but there must be a genetic thing, or some sort of evolutionary process that has fast-tracked to allow them to think they need to be able to kill people as some sort of divine birthright.

Edited by BarryBevan

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They showed a family photo of him today and seeing as his Mrs wasn't wearing a burka or anything it didn't seem like he was too much of a hard core muslin let alone a radical Isis type.

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Just saw some interesting stuff on The Project.

 

Reports are now coming in that this guy has frequently visited this club as a patron, and several others as well. People who knew him at school are saying he had approached them looking for a relationship, and his online activity shows him frequenting gay websites and dating sites. Apparently on the night he entered the club and was drinking in the corner.

I'm not surprised that The Project would prefer to run the 'frustrated gay man in the closet' line

 

It means the former executive member of the Islamic Council of Victoria can avoid having to defend Islam again

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Seeing some items today "reminding" the American republic that the worse modern day massacre was the DAFT "attack" on the Davidian cult at Waco Texas in the 1990s with 70 odd people killed when the compound was stormed by the government officers. This is also "justification" of why the disarming of civilians is dangerous

 

Would be safer for the government to figure out a way to make these nutters sterile and wait for them to die out than try to take their guns off them

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So from the media it appears this guy was

 

- Violent, including domestic violence against his wife

- mentally unstable if not mentally ill

- Gay, including using apps and trying to pick up at gay nightclubs. Open about it with ex wife and current de facto, ? estranged from parents due to this.

- Muslim, but a gay, alcohol drinking muslim.

- Male

- Obssessed with military/security/policing

- A legal gun owner including a glock and an assault rifle

- American citizen

 

It fits the American mindset (particularly Trump) to focus on the lowest hanging fruit: dude was an Isis terrorist. He would have been beheaded by Isis for being gay.

 

Take out one of these characteristics (his religion) and he would be seen to be a conflicted person with mental health issues battling stereotypes regarding his sexuality.

 

Common theme? bullied as a kid, unhinged nutter as an adult with unrestricted access to ridiculously lethal guns. Time and time again.

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So from the media it appears this guy was

 

- Violent, including domestic violence against his wife

- mentally unstable if not mentally ill

- Gay, including using apps and trying to pick up at gay nightclubs. Open about it with ex wife and current de facto, ? estranged from parents due to this.

- Muslim, but a gay, alcohol drinking muslim.

- Male

- Obssessed with military/security/policing

- A legal gun owner including a glock and an assault rifle

- American citizen

 

It fits the American mindset (particularly Trump) to focus on the lowest hanging fruit: dude was an Isis terrorist. He would have been beheaded by Isis for being gay.

 

Take out one of these characteristics (his religion) and he would be seen to be a conflicted person with mental health issues battling stereotypes regarding his sexuality.

 

Common theme? bullied as a kid, unhinged nutter as an adult with unrestricted access to ridiculously lethal guns. Time and time again.

But that's not an interesting story and didn't feed public fears which is what the Government wants. And it works, the Islam thread here is evidence of the brainwashing by those who take the media to be 'truth'.

 

I'm no conspiracy theorist but there's a LOT of work that goes into keeping the mainstream public, including intelligent people, scared and malleable.

 

Just look at history and there's been one threat after another which will end the world, cold war, Chinese expansion etc, this is the latest and greatest Western political campaign.

 

It may in fact end up ending the world but as a reaction not action. Constant provocation is pushing moderate, law abiding citizens into more extreme positions as societies reject them as a result of fear and hate mongering.

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It's quite amazing how blind some yanks are: clearly don't wanna see what doesn't suit their arguments. My wife has had a couple of 'discussions on Twitter in the last day. One last night with a yank saying our by back scheme years ago has had no effect on the level of gun violence in Australia. And in the last hour with another one who was making a big deal about the British pollie shot the other day and that that wouldn't happen in America! Boggles the mind at times...

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I love this piece by John Oliver. I saw it on FB, linked by a guy I used to be in a band with. He was a US marine, ex aussie army and is very pro gun controls.

 

 

If you want, skip to the end when Van Cleave is talking about pools. He says if you have more backyard pools, you'll have more drownings. So if you have more guns, you'll have more gun related deaths. And doesn't even realise he's made a pro gun control point!

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I'll go find it.

 

But seriously, you just have to live the bit about swimming pools meaning more drownings, so guns means more gun deaths, and he doesn't even realise he's making the anti gun argument for him.

 

And is that Lee van cleafe's brother, or cousin or something?

Edited by goughy

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Worth a mention that something like 4 proposals are going to the us senate today to tighten gun controls over there. Just heard that the first of those 4 has been defeated in the senate. Expect the others to fail as well.

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Did anyone see the speech Obama did the other day (on a QandA style program)??

 

A guy asked why the President wants to 'take away' the guns from 'good honest law-abiding citizens' ...

 

Obama gave a great answer. One thing he said was that as a politician you can't even question guns - he said that the US Senate refuses to allow the Health Bodies to even consider studying gun related violence - the seante essentially blocks any proposal for a government agency to collect statistics/information about gun injuries as the way of having some background info. He said that even an idea of collecting statistics on gun injuries is cried down as 'taking away the guns' - they are so obsessed by guns that they are NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO COLLECT DATA ON INJURIES/GUN USE ....wtf??

 

He also gave great examples of individuals who have details discussed in the 'situation room' at the White House. He said there are known ISIS sympathisers, who are on FBI watch lists, on no-fly-lists and who are considered a threat to US citizens (ie potential terrorists). But current gun laws allow them to walk into any gun store and buy anything they want no questions asked .....

Edited by TryTriB4Forty
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So from the media it appears this guy was

 

- Violent, including domestic violence against his wife

- mentally unstable if not mentally ill

- Gay, including using apps and trying to pick up at gay nightclubs. Open about it with ex wife and current de facto, ? estranged from parents due to this.

- Muslim, but a gay, alcohol drinking muslim.

- Male

- Obssessed with military/security/policing

- A legal gun owner including a glock and an assault rifle

- American citizen

 

It fits the American mindset (particularly Trump) to focus on the lowest hanging fruit: dude was an Isis terrorist. He would have been beheaded by Isis for being gay.

 

Take out one of these characteristics (his religion) and he would be seen to be a conflicted person with mental health issues battling stereotypes regarding his sexuality.

 

Common theme? bullied as a kid, unhinged nutter as an adult with unrestricted access to ridiculously lethal guns. Time and time again.

 

So if someone approaching your family is:

 

- an American citizen
- violent, including domestic violence against his wife
- mentally unstable if not mentally ill
- gay
- Muslim
- Male
- Obssessed with military/security/policing
- carrying a loaded rapid fire multi round assault rifle
and you had the chance to change just one characteristic listed above before they approached your family, which would it be?

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Maybe it's that because his sexuality was so persecuted in his religion and culture, that he had severe self-loathing, that caused him to become the violent and angst ridden person who could commit this type of act.

Â

Maybe he was also seeking to prove his masculinity / heterosexuality and aiming for some sort of redemption and fame by becoming a posthumous hero within his culture.

Edited by Niseko
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I think they should just paint the Capital building yellow. American politicians would have to be the most chicken shit bunch on the face of the planet. Get off the nra gravy train and do something about protecting your citizens.

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11 cops shot so far in sniper attacks, supposed retaliation for the latest shootings in custody in the last 48 hours

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4 of them dead. Things will now get even worse before they have any hope of getting better.

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Apparently 4 suspects in custody, caught in elevated triangulate positions and believed to have been working together to target police officers at a protest rally.

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And still not one mass shooting foiled by a 'right to bear arms' American citizen :confused1:

 

I note the US cops shot another black American is his car when pulled over for a traffic offence and was reaching for his licence (though he had alerted the officer he was 'carrying'). I guess a sad yet ironic instance of where the right to bear arms gets you killed, not protected :sleepy:

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