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USA shootings and gun laws

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I find it amazing that there are so many daily shootings in the USA, and at the same time there are guys like Martin Shkreli managing to avoid what is clearly a well deserved bullet in the head...

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haha that guy is in the dictionary as the definition of douche. You look at him and you think douche, he opens his mouth and you think douche.

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e530a6f50021cb79077cbaaed6bfd898.jpg

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

With that "sent from my GT.........." it makes it look like you took the photo Downesy. I didn't know you were a southern boy?

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One of the Brisbane gun shops is running a Buy your loved one a gun for Valentines and we'll organise training & licence". You'd want to make sure she's really the one first.

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You beat me to it! Can't wait to see how the gun lobby puts a positive spin on this! Or her?

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/progun-activist-shot-in-the-back-by-her-fouryearold-son/news-story/17342957f49df34cb4c4341da563abac

 

The link to her facebook page 'Jamie Gilt for gun sense', doesn't work for me. Either a closed group or something, or it's suddenly gone?

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Haven't had any discussion on this for a while.

 

The handgun that was used to kill teenager Trayvon Martin has sold at auction for 346k. Seriously, some nut must want to hang that thing on display somewhere, in pride of place. The gun that was used to kill a kid! ****ing embarrassment.

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I thought the gun people believed "guns don't kill people, people kill people"... It would seem at least one sicko has other ideas.

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I think the selling of the gun by Zimmerman (the one that killed T. Martyn) was all about raising money for a 'cause'.

 

There is a charity in the US called 'Black Lives Matter' which aims to bring awareness to death of black youth by police and in crime etc

 

Zimmerman has said that he does not support the objectives of Black Lives matter and he sold the gun to raise money for a group to work against Black Lives Matter ....

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Hornsby just now.

 

Sounds like a bloke with a knife came at two police and they tried to shoot his legs in an outdoor paved area, some bullets richochet and hit three bystanders as well as the knifer.

 

Good grief.

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Hornsby, in the tiled courtyard near the fountain, on a Thursday, it would be packed - open-air mall day, pension day, school-sports day. Current reports are that he is a patient who'd gone missing from a phych ward, and that Police were already looking for him, so (if correct) I'm sure there was some concern regarding that, but it seems quite bizarre they would open fire there, in those conditions, and aim for his legs - missing twice and hitting 3 bystanders. However, I'm sure the media will manage to give us all the "facts" we need to know at 6:00PM - the place is swarming with camera crews at the moment.

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There is no police training in Australia that teaches "shoot for legs". It's shoot to stop the threat which is centre of mass.

 

A suggestion otherwise by the media is a falsehood.

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They just said on The Project that he was hit in the torso and arm, and those shots have ricocheted into the crowd. Not commenting on the situation itself, but it sounds like they were aiming for the torso.

 

They said reports said there were two shots heard, then 30secs later another 2 shots.

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A suggestion otherwise by the media is a falsehood.

 

The commercial media are quick to use Social-Media for early reporting, and unfortunately that brings out the worst in some people..

 

I work nearby, and walk across that very spot every day at around that time. When I got there today, it was shut down and people were already ramping up the "terrorist" gossip... "I hear that he had a knife and killed 2 people, so the cops blew him away"... and so on.

 

I have no idea about the confrontation, only some knowledge of the location risks, and hope they were given full consideration in the decision to use guns.

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This appears to be the videos of the female officer pulling the trigger as he runs at her. News says investigation into why they did not initially pull tasers instead of guns. Note all the people in the background, Seems story about aiming at legs is bunkum.

 

https://amp.twimg.com/v/f94e5642-93eb-4460-a9df-6a8ac185214e

 

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/06/09/12/07/reports-of-shooting-at-westfield-hornsby

Edited by ComfortablyNumb

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Looks to me as though the female officer is stepping to her left and the man is about to head past her, focused on the source of the footage.

 

I think the Police were actually searching for a mentally ill person at the time, you would think procedure would have them reach first for the taser, spray or baton in a crowded shopping area at lunch time. They are always in pairs right? Why not a procedure that calls for one to go for lethal one for non-lethal when a suspect being searched for is not expected to have a firearm?

 

Whatever the outcome it was a hard day at the office for these officers. It is a tough job.

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I do equate this, to like listening to a sporting commentator who makes a comment about not believing a player made a particular decision during a game (like kicking a field goal when down by 2). Analysis after the event is easier than during. I'm sure (unless you're in America) there aren't that many people in the world who actually want to shoot someone. I remember talking to one of my cop mates years ago that he's never pulled his gun out on duty and hopes he never does. I'll take a bet the cops feel like crap now, and are probably second guessing themselves as much as others are.

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Totally agree goughy, it is a real tough job and it will be very hard for them right now. There really is no place for speculation by the general public on what the officers should have done, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't get their bosses to answer some hard questions about how they support the people on the front line.

 

Every effort should be made to provide the training and procedures Police in the field need to do their job. The Police force isn't immune to poor management, bullshit regulations and narcissist idiots that are only interested in their own career advancement, these are in every human organisation. You only need to look at the Lindt Cafe siege inquiry to see the organisation is much like any other.

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I dont want to be critical and in situations like this my default position is the police are right until proven otherwise as it is their life on the line.

 

A few things I have been thinking, if she had a taser, judging on the shots fired, she also would have missed, then if the offender kept at her she would have had no second option in that time frame. I believe the officer who fired did the right thing.

 

The other officers not immediately in the offenders sights may have been the most appropriate to use a taser.

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I would hate to be a copper.

 

You turn up to a job/callout not knowing what might happen, you have half a second to react to a guy with a knife/bat/gun/hostage/bomb..... its gotta be a hard gig ...

 

Then when you pull the trigger you have to put up with months of people analysing everything, watching video in slow motion, from 10 different angles, analysing the mental health of the 'victim' ... its probably very easy to come up with what the right course of action when you have weeks to consider everything, from every angle, with all the appropriate information to hand and hours of thinking time....

 

Unfortunately, if you are in a situation where there is a guy with a knife coming at you in a public place you don't really have that long actually make a decision.

 

Cops are in a no win situation .... if they had NOT fired and this guy had gone on to injure someone with the knife they would have been asked why they didn't do something. Then when they do something they are criticised for it anyway....

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Unfortunately, if you are in a situation where there is a guy with a knife coming at you in a public place you don't really have that long actually make a decision.

 

 

 

All the more reason they should go in with all the training and support they can get. I think these inquiries they run after shootings should be focused on what support and training they were or were not given rather than how they reacted in a split second. But maybe they do that already I don't know...

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The "report" is - 2 shots, a significant gap, another 2 shots.

 

I don't much faith in any media and/or "eye-witness" reports, but if it's basically correct, then you would assume there would need to be some serious questions asked of the procedures, given the crowds of people in the background (i.e. in line of fire) and the fact that 3 bystanders were injured.

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I heard this morning 2 shots, then another one after. And that he was wounded in the torso, arm and thigh. Can the bystanders inured have been hit by bullets/shrapnel that passed through him? I'm assuming with the number of others inured that that had to be the case. It doesn't seem to me that the police were over zealous with their use of firearms.

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Will be interesting to hear more about the mental health of the deceased and how they were in a situation of being sought. Plenty of questions around the police which appears to be the sole focus so far, but nothing as yet as to whether the person should have been in a situation to be walking around society free and whether any department stuffed up to allow this to happen

 

Easy enough to blame those left to sort out the messes of others

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Will be interesting to hear more about the mental health of the deceased and how they were in a situation of being sought. Plenty of questions around the police which appears to be the sole focus so far, but nothing as yet as to whether the person should have been in a situation to be walking around society free and whether any department stuffed up to allow this to happen

 

Easy enough to blame those left to sort out the messes of others

 

I dont think the offender died. He is still in hospital.

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Had an almost identical situation here. Mental health patient who had left hospital, police were searching for him, he was terrified of police, ran through a cafe and grabbed a knife, police followed him into back laneway (no crowds of bystanders), told him to drop knife, he did not, one shot to the chest, dead. See below - any lessons learned? Time for some changes in procedures, esp when they know they are dealing with mental health patients?

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-01/coroner-hands-down-findings-on-death-of-elijah-holcombe/5424152

 

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/officer-who-shot-mentally-ill-man-wont-be-charged-20120829-250t7.html

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Reported on ABC radio this morning that the offender/guy that was shot was on day release from a nearby mental health facility and that he had not returned to the facility when he was meant to (approved day release).

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always take a gun to a knife fight is my general rule.

 

I just took my old rugby league skills.

 

Side-stepped the on-coming knife, told the idiot to wake up to himself and drop it, he turned and ran away.

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Not interesting but predictable - many dead or injured and nothing will change

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Absolutely nothing will come from it.

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**** me they are saying at least 50 killed!!!!!!! I'd like to comment how ****ing nuts that country is, but when DT has a possibility of becoming president nothing more needs to be said!

 

One pollie of someone was saying this is clearly an act of terrorism! But I don't see how they can call it that. It was one man, who a little while ago expressed anger in front of his father when he saw two men kissing. This was one man, with no prompting.

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Had some discussion with an idiot on FB, and same as is being promoted, they want to call this an act of terror! They now say ISIL etc will want to claim responsibility for this. But regardless of his religious beliefs, I can't see how this is any more than just a hate crime, and pushing the terror agenda just seems to play into the hands of ISIL. I can't see how this is more than an act of hate by someone who had expressed disgust at seeing men kissing. He was known to be violent, he was known to the fbi, yet he was able to legally get a gun license and purchase weapons.

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The guy called 911 and professed his allegience to ISIS before he did the attack.

 

The Islamic media is full of people congratulating him and wishing him well in the afterlife it's ridiculous.

 

Regressive left apologists who try to remove Islam from these attacks are part of the problem.

 

No point kidding ourselves any longer:

 

 

 

We are at war with Islam.

 

 

 

.

Edited by Niseko

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Had some discussion with an idiot on FB, and same as is being promoted, they want to call this an act of terror! They now say ISIL etc will want to claim responsibility for this. But regardless of his religious beliefs, I can't see how this is any more than just a hate crime, and pushing the terror agenda just seems to play into the hands of ISIL. I can't see how this is more than an act of hate by someone who had expressed disgust at seeing men kissing. He was known to be violent, he was known to the fbi, yet he was able to legally get a gun license and purchase weapons.

His religious beliefs do enter into it, in one way or another.

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The guy called 911 and professed his allegience to ISIS before he did the attack.

 

The Islamic media is full of people congratulating him and wishing him well in the afterlife it's ridiculous.

 

Regressive left apologists who try to remove Islam from these attacks are part of the problem.

 

No point kidding ourselves any longer:

 

 

 

We are at war with Islam.

 

 

 

.

Incorrect. That just fuels further hatred saying that. All Islamists are extremists. geeeezzz

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**** me they are saying at least 50 killed!!!!!!! I'd like to comment how ****ing nuts that country is, but when DT has a possibility of becoming president nothing more needs to be said!

 

One pollie of someone was saying this is clearly an act of terrorism! But I don't see how they can call it that. It was one man, who a little while ago expressed anger in front of his father when he saw two men kissing. This was one man, with no prompting.

Islam, the Koran, is specifically anti gay, in that same sex relations are prohibited.

 

Watching 2 men kiss doesn't promote a mass slaughter/execution. There is some background beyond

that.

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Incorrect. That just fuels further hatred saying that. All Islamists are extremists. geeeezzz

What's an Islamist?

 

Many fundamental Sunni Muslims do have those beliefs.

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