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Also, James Pattinson should be back in the selection mix by then and I think he has the potential to be an absolute super-star as an all-rounder (assuming he can stay healthy!).

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Australia lost that first test by not punishing the weak Indian first innings. At least one of the top 4 bats needed to make a ton and there needed to be several 50-100 run partnerships in our first innings. That was the difference. I hope that our selectors stick with our present line up for a while to give our bats some comfidence to go to the level they need to be: let’s face it, there is not a lot of better options available out there.

Moreover. Winning the toss and Khawaja and or one other scoring a big hundred would just about kill the Indians. 

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14 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

Australia lost that first test by not punishing the weak Indian first innings.

and i thought we lost because we are crap...can't bat...can't bowl..

Edited by Prince
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5 hours ago, Prince said:

and i thought we lost because we are crap...can't bat...can't bowl..

We were excellent in the field. I’d back our attack against most teams with the exception of the South Africans or India in the sub continent - and even in those two instances we are competitive. It’s our top and middle order batting that is letting us down. Only Khawaja is arguably world class.

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24 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

It’s our top and middle order batting that is letting us down. Only Khawaja is arguably world class.

When is Smith back?

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12 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

We were excellent in the field. I’d back our attack against most teams with the exception of the South Africans or India in the sub continent - and even in those two instances we are competitive. It’s our top and middle order batting that is letting us down. Only Khawaja is arguably world class.

I do agree actually.  I am surprised they are going in to today with an unchanged team. I also think our team seems  pretty well behaved. we need a bit of mongrel back. 

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17 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

4 starts & no-one has gone on with it. Disappointing that we could have been in so much better a position at stumps.

If our batsmen were world class they’d convert at least half their starts into centuries. 

Paine also has a start, again. However, he’s never converted a start into a hundred in test match cricket. He’s only ever done it once in first class cricket.

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8 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

Paine also has a start, again. However, he’s never converted a start into a hundred in test match cricket. He’s only ever done it once in first class cricket.

It wasn’t really that long ago that a keeper getting 40 or 50 was an exceptional knock. I’m pretty sure Healy making his 3rd century was an Aussie keeper record at the time. 

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31 minutes ago, Tyno said:

It wasn’t really that long ago that a keeper getting 40 or 50 was an exceptional knock. I’m pretty sure Healy making his 3rd century was an Aussie keeper record at the time. 

Is Paine really a world class keeper though, or is he in there as a batsman that can keep? I know he was touted as one of the best young keepers when he came along, but he has also played a lot of cricket as opener rather than keeper.

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I know nothing about cricket. I heard Michael Clarke on the radio this morning, a repeat of something he said over the weekend that Australia are never going to win if they play nice. They need to show emotion

So is there only 1 way to win cricket & that is by acting like a bunch of knobs? Is Michael a knob? He sounds like it to me

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14 minutes ago, Surfer said:

I know nothing about cricket. I heard Michael Clarke on the radio this morning, a repeat of something he said over the weekend that Australia are never going to win if they play nice. They need to show emotion

So is there only 1 way to win cricket & that is by acting like a bunch of knobs? Is Michael a knob? He sounds like it to me

I think it is more about intimidation and mind games. Once you get to the elite level of many sports the main deciding factor between winning and loosing is mental.

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5 hours ago, more said:

Once you get to the elite level of many sports the main deciding factor between winning and loosing is mental.

Apparently it's 90% mental.

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Quick wickets this morning, end the game early and enjoy a well earned break. 

I think Handscomb is gone, he is a wlaking LBW shout, Maybe move Finch to middle order and bring in an opener, maybe Burns? Renshaw hasnt been doing much in Shield cricket lately.

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8 minutes ago, Pencil_Towel said:

Quick wickets this morning, end the game early and enjoy a well earned break. 

I think Handscomb is gone, he is a wlaking LBW shout, Maybe move Finch to middle order and bring in an opener, maybe Burns? Renshaw hasnt been doing much in Shield cricket lately.

Fair enough, but what i think the selectors will actually do is ... move Khawaja to opener and pick Mitchell Marsh to bat at no.6. ... you know that makes sense, dont ya? 😂 

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1 hour ago, Andrew #1 said:

Fair enough, but what i think the selectors will actually do is ... move Khawaja to opener and pick Mitchell Marsh to bat at no.6. ... you know that makes sense, dont ya? 😂 

If the MCG looks as road-like as recent years they will definitely want an all rounder option to support the main four bowlers. Only has to bowl 10 tidy overs a day, average more then Handscomb so far this series with the bat and not be a liability in the field, reckon M Marsh or Stoinis can manage that.    

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1 hour ago, Andrew #1 said:

Fair enough, but what i think the selectors will actually do is ... move Khawaja to opener and pick Mitchell Marsh to bat at no.6. ... you know that makes sense, dont ya? 😂 

Statistically, Khawaja avg's over 100 with the bat when he has opened in test cricket (has only done it 4 times, so not a lock) moving him to opener isnt such a bad move.

Mitch Marsh or Stoinis coming in to 'bat' middle order and take up some of the bowling load from the quicks isn't a bad move either.

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2 minutes ago, Riddos said:

If the MCG looks as road-like as recent years they will definitely want an all rounder option to support the main four bowlers. Only has to bowl 10 tidy overs a day, average more then Handscomb so far this series with the bat and not be a liability in the field, reckon M Marsh or Stoinis can manage that.    

Thats exactly right in terms of what you should expect from an all rounder coming into the side.

However, Media and critics will rank ANY Test all rounder against Jacques Kallis and therefore they inevitably fail.......

Just like every wicketkeeper batsmen is compared to Gilchrist

Edited by Pencil_Towel

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9 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

IMO the curator of the Perth wicket deserves a warning from the ICC, no way that wicket was test match standard.

Coming from an Indian ICC President, it'd be a laughable accusation after the standards of some of their pitches.

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11 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

IMO the curator of the Perth wicket deserves a warning from the ICC, no way that wicket was test match standard.

Drop in pitch. However. At least it wasn’t a road.  Nearly 1,000 runs and 40 wickets in 4.2 days is ok. Far from the worst wicket I’ve seen 

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16 hours ago, Mike Del said:

IMO the curator of the Perth wicket deserves a warning from the ICC, no way that wicket was test match standard.

Really? I thought it provided a good contest. It did some weird stuff on day 1, but other than that, it was standard.

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On 18/12/2018 at 11:37 AM, Pencil_Towel said:

Thats exactly right in terms of what you should expect from an all rounder coming into the side.

However, Media and critics will rank ANY Test all rounder against Jacques Kallis and therefore they inevitably fail.......

Just like every wicketkeeper batsmen is compared to Gilchrist

Yep, still in the forlon quest to find Australia's answer to 2005 vintage Freddie Flintoff.  

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On 18/12/2018 at 10:34 AM, Riddos said:

 Only has to bowl 10 tidy overs a day,  

~13 tidy overs a day. You underestimated the road-ness. 

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On 18/12/2018 at 8:39 PM, Mike Del said:

IMO the curator of the Perth wicket deserves a warning from the ICC, no way that wicket was test match standard.

And what did the curator at the MCG think he was doing with this one. 

5 wickets for 430 odd runs, and then 20 wickets for the next 260 runs. And right from the start of the match they were saying it would play well for 2 days then become lively. It's a joke really that they have to play a game where the greatest skill a captain needs is to be able to call the toss successfully. 

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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

And what did the curator at the MCG think he was doing with this one. 

5 wickets for 430 odd runs, and then 20 wickets for the next 260 runs. And right from the start of the match they were saying it would play well for 2 days then become lively. It's a joke really that they have to play a game where the greatest skill a captain needs is to be able to call the toss successfully. 

How many wickets were lost in Perth due to the state of the pitch...... and how many of the wickets that have fallen over the last day and a half in Melbourne are due to the state of the pitch. Most commentators I respect have said the majority of day 3 & 4 wickets to fall in Melbourne were not due to the condition of the pitch but due to poor shot selection, pressure, and a couple of superb bowling spells.

At the conclusion of the 2nd test in Perth the pitch received the lowest passable rating from the Sri Lankan match referee. Whole plates of turf were shifting and one team was asked not to use a roller normally available to them for fear of the pitch breaking up and the test needing to be abandoned. I expect this Melbourne wicket will fair much better in the post match report.

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2 hours ago, Ironnerd said:

Pat Cummins - gets my vote for Man of the Match. 

For sure

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15 hours ago, Ironnerd said:

Pat Cummins - gets my vote for Man of the Match. 

It's currently raining in Melbourne, but likely to clear later this morning. If it doesn't however, Cummins HAS to get man of the match for staying there last night to get them on to the final day.

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3 hours ago, Prince said:

we were a coin toss away from winning the match I think. 

Closer indeed but...... with the form of our current batting line up? I'm not so sure

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Take out smith and warner’s early year tons and the rest of our batting line up has only scored a hundred twice in the calendar year. The 4 in total (including Warner and smith’s efforts) for 2018 is the equal worst on record for the Australian test team (and the other equally poor effort was when Australia only played five tests for the year, as opposed to the 10 tests we played in 2018.

Our batting stocks are nearly empty. Largely in my view because the ACB have not been able to properly calibrate T20 cricket into the domestic season and the longer form of the game, especially Shield Cricket has suffered. 

That said, there are obvious better options than persisting with either Finch or M Marsh (at least as a mainstay of the team). 

Joe Burns did struggle as a test opener against quality bowling line ups two years ago, but the fact remains that his record and current form is light years ahead of every other available opening batting option. He averages 37 in tests, 41 in first class cricket and is averaging about 50 in the Sheffield Shield this season. It verges in criminal that he isn’t the first opener selected.

Young NSW No.3 Patterson should be picked to partner Head in the lower middle order. Again, this is a no brainer. 

Marnus L’s selection makes zero sense unless the selectors think the SCG pitch will be a real turner and they are prepared to rest Hazelwood and keep M Marsh as a spare pace option while Lyon with Marnus’s Leg breaks as a foil do most of the heavy lifting with the ball. Otherwise the section is a joke. Murnus is neither a first class bat or bowler and not a genuine all rounder prospect.

Edited by Andrew #1
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3 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

Take out smith and warner’s early year tons and the rest of our batting line up has only scored a hundred twice in the calendar year. The 4 in total (including Warner and smith’s efforts) for 2018 is the equal worst on record for the Australian test team (and the other equally poor effort was when Australia only played five tests for the year, as opposed to the 10 tests we played in 2018.

Our batting stocks are nearly empty. Largely in my view because the ACB have not been able to properly calibrate T20 cricket into the domestic season and the longer form of the game, especially Shield Cricket has suffered. 

That said, there are obvious better options than persisting with either Finch or M Marsh (at least as a mainstay of the team). 

Joe Burns did struggle as a test opener against quality bowling line ups two years ago, but the fact remains that his record and current form is light years ahead of every other available opening batting option. He averages 37 in tests, 41 in first class cricket and is averaging about 50 in the Sheffield Shield this season. It verges in criminal that he isn’t the first opener selected.

Young NSW No.3 Patterson should be picked to partner Head in the lower middle order. Again, this is a no brainer. 

Marnus L’s selection makes zero sense unless the selectors think the SCG pitch will be a real turner and they are prepared to rest Hazelwood and keep M Marsh as a spare pace option while Lyon with Marnus’s Leg breaks as a foil do most of the heavy lifting with the ball. Otherwise the section is a joke. Murnus is neither a first class bat or bowler and not a genuine all rounder prospect.

68 day break from 4 day Shield cricket right when we need to be looking for inform batsmen, brilliant idea by Cricket Aus

 

Edited by Mike Del
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Crazy stat that the Aussie quicks have yet to get a wicket via LBW so far this series. Especially as two of the pitches have had variable bounce and balls keeping low from pretty early on. Since Plan A, B and C haven't worked it might be time to set a leg-side field and bowl at the stumps a bit. 

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The other crazy stat, though when you look at modern pitches, maybe not that crazy, Kohli has not lost a test in the 21 where he has won the toss.

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Pujara was making double centuries when he was 16. Our systems arent geared towards occupying the crease.  No wonder we are battling.

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19 hours ago, Riddos said:

Crazy stat that the Aussie quicks have yet to get a wicket via LBW so far this series. Especially as two of the pitches have had variable bounce and balls keeping low from pretty early on. Since Plan A, B and C haven't worked it might be time to set a leg-side field and bowl at the stumps a bit. 

Worse even, they were saying it off about 2500 balls only about 200 would have hit the wickets.  What ever happened to good like and length.  Maybe they should look at what was taught 30 and 40 years ago.  

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10 hours ago, goughy said:

Worse even, they were saying it off about 2500 balls only about 200 would have hit the wickets.  What ever happened to good like and length.  Maybe they should look at what was taught 30 and 40 years ago.  

Taking the possibility out of a batsman’s mind that if he makes a mistake he could get bowled or out LBW certainly takes the pressure off said batsman - only has to concentrate on not nicking one ... batsmen who have patience to wait for a loose ball will be rewarded bigly if they don’t have to play defensively to preserve their wicket. As India have proven with their 5 centuries so far this series.

Fun fact - the last time that no australian batsman scored a century in a home test series of 4 or more tests was ... 1883-4. ...

Edited by Andrew #1

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On 04/01/2019 at 2:33 PM, Merv said:

Pujara was making double centuries when he was 16. Our systems arent geared towards occupying the crease.  No wonder we are battling.

Just heard on the radio that from this year the Victorian State under 18 or school boy cricket Championship is moving to a T20 competition.   

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If too much short form cricket is the problem then why are we so crap at those as well?

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21 hours ago, Stikman said:

If too much short form cricket is the problem then why are we so crap at those as well?

The fundamental problem is the fragmentation of the way the game is organised in Australia:

Six Shield Games before xmas, but the test team is so obviously picked without regard to demonstrated current form in those shield games (witness the exclusion of Burns, Maxwell, Wade and Patterson in favour of players who - not only have failed in recent tests but have also had a dismal shield season;

Then - no sheild games at all until the end of February, with the last four rounds played with the Dukes ball - which is totally irrelevant to Australian conditions, given we have never played test cricket in thei country (or any other country outside England and the West Indies) with the Dukes, and are not likely to in the near future;

The ODI assembles for a week or 10 days at a time, sparodically throughout the year, only to be flogged in most games. By the time the team builds some cohesion and momentum that particular ODI series is over and the team dissolves for a few months before a ‘rinse and repeat’ episode;

The big bash kicks off at a time when our genuine stars are unavailable due to the Boxing Day and New Years Tests. When they are over there is little enthusiasm for our test players to back up for most of the second half of the big bash. Then there are some joke ODIs and T20 internationals to wrap up the summer.

Compare that to the way that the Indians organise their cricket calendar - starting with the timing of the Champions League and noting that that particular competition is the only T20 competition that the ICB permits their international players to participate in.

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