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Kona lottery gone

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They'll come up with something else. The race started as just a group of ordinary people doing something stupid, so they'll find a way to keep some in it.

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that's a great shame as the Lottery was a great pathway for a MOP /BOP without the need to undertake the dozen or more IM finishes needed to qualify for the Legacy Program, which I'm glad to hear will continue to operate, as the Legacy Program, like the coffee shop loyalty card really does reward loyalty.

what will WTC do with the now 100 unallocated and available spots

Auction

a couple of new events

more spots for existing events

Edited by AVAGO

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I couldnt read the whole thing on my teeny tiny phone.

 

Those with lottery spots for this year? have to let them go right? They could have forked out for accom etc.

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what will WTC do with the now 100 unallocated and available spots

Auction

a couple of new events

more spots for existing events

They'll modify the lottery. That's basically what they said. The existing method was non-compliant, so they'll come up with something that is.

 

 

I couldnt read the whole thing on my teeny tiny phone.

 

Those with lottery spots for this year? have to let them go right? They could have forked out for accom etc.

 

2015 lottery winners proceed as normal.

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I wonder if the issue was that you have to pay to enter a lottery, and the winner gets the opportunity to pay you some more money to enter the race?

 

I know I ran a couple of fund raisers here about 30 years ago, and rules were a certain % of the take had to go back in prizes.

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Problem was it's rigged and not a real lottery, percentage is legit but some of it's orchestrated.

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Problem was it's rigged and not a real lottery, percentage is legit but some of it's orchestrated.

 

 

Certainly seemed less than random. Always seemed to be a big percentage of people especially from Aus who were "very worthy" of a Lottery spot.

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The authorities going after the Kona lottery is stupid beyond belief.

I'm pretty sure most states would be happy to put an end to an illegal activity that netted just under $1 million a year in their jurisdiction.

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Funny thing is if WTC is so concerned about John Collins' legacy like they always like to mention, all they have to do is not charge people to enter the lottery and it would be completely legal.

 

Chances of them doing that?

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Don't be cynical Rog it's about giving the battler a chance :shy:

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The could just allocate them per race to give away, but that wouldn't overly favour the Americans, and they cant have that.

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12 USCS § 25a , “lottery" includes any arrangement whereby three or more persons (the "participants") advance money or credit to another in exchange for the possibility or expectation that one or more but not all of the participants (the "winners") will receive by reason of their advances more than the amounts they have advanced, the identity of the winners being determined by any means which includes--

(A) a random selection;

(B) a game, race, or contest; or

© any record or tabulation of the result of one or more events in which any participant has no interest except for its bearing upon the possibility that he may become a winner.

 

How do you value a slot at Kona? The winner isn't really winning anything of value, as you still have to pay the Kona entry fee. So couldn't it be argued that you are winning something that "advances [less] than the amounts they have advanced"?

 

Doesn't this also make Kona-qualifying illegal? Pay money, take part in "a game, race, or contest", and if you win, you get the exact same prize as someone who paid to enter the lottery.

 

:wink3:

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they will call it something like a waiting list and you will have to pay the same fee every year and they will give them to the people who have been on the wait list the longest or something like that

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Better term would be ballot - similar to the ANZAC Day Ballot for tickets to Turkey.

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12 USCS § 25a , lottery" includes any arrangement whereby three or more persons (the "participants") advance money or credit to another in exchange for the possibility or expectation that one or more but not all of the participants (the "winners") will receive by reason of their advances more than the amounts they have advanced, the identity of the winners being determined by any means which includes--

(A) a random selection;

(B) a game, race, or contest; or

© any record or tabulation of the result of one or more events in which any participant has no interest except for its bearing upon the possibility that he may become a winner.

 

How do you value a slot at Kona? The winner isn't really winning anything of value, as you still have to pay the Kona entry fee. So couldn't it be argued that you are winning something that "advances [less] than the amounts they have advanced"?

 

Doesn't this also make Kona-qualifying illegal? Pay money, take part in "a game, race, or contest", and if you win, you get the exact same prize as someone who paid to enter the lottery.

 

:wink3:

Couldn't it be valued at what they sell a spot for on ebay?

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Better term would be ballot - similar to the ANZAC Day Ballot for tickets to Turkey.

did you have to buy a ticket in the ANZAC Day Ballot or did you just add your name to the list?

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Better term would be ballot - similar to the ANZAC Day Ballot for tickets to Turkey.

 

 

Or they could make it a "game of skill"

 

TH_ K_NA LOTT_RY IS A WTC C_SH C_W

 

Wanna buy a vowel?

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Couldn't it be valued at what they sell a spot for on ebay?

 

Possibly RBR, but as ebay is an auction, that could skew the issue - there seems to be a reserve of $10,000. I'm also not sure if such a like-to-like valuation could occur as the auction is not for all spots, but only a select few and therefore isn't a true representation of the market value. I'm just throwing thoughts around here RBR, I don't really know what the true answer would be, but it's a good starting point in terms of establishing a 'market value' of an entry.

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did you have to buy a ticket in the ANZAC Day Ballot or did you just add your name to the list?

No it's free. They also have a waiting list.

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Ironman Hawaii random draw (administration fee applies). This is made up of actual random draw and allocation of identified athletes - at the discretion of the xxx Committee. Maximum allocation of identified athletes (say 10%).

 

Piece of p*ss.

 

FM

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they will need to sort out something or the finish line after 12 hours will be pretty dull.

 

 

 

Until Ben Greenfield finishes!!! :lol:

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Or they could make it a "game of skill"

 

TH_ K_NA LOTT_RY IS A WTC C_SH C_W

 

Wanna buy a vowel?

afbl2q.jpg Edited by clarkey

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As someone who has pursued the lottery option I am not sad to see it replaced. In my view the whole 'I want to do an ironman and it has to be Kona' is silly. I reckon replacing the lottery with a series of small lotteries drawn at each of the full distance IM qualifying races from the finishers in that race is the preferred option - perhaps between 2 and 5 lottery slots per race ...

Edited by Andrew #1

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Would they still have to pay to enter those Andrew, cause of think the payment to enter thing is something they really want.

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Would they still have to pay to enter those Andrew, cause of think the payment to enter thing is something they really want.

Why?

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Certainly seemed less than random. Always seemed to be a big percentage of people especially from Aus who were "very worthy" of a Lottery spot.

 

Keep your mouth shut and head down. Apart from being a club president or TA staffer/State board member, being proprietor of a pissant site no-one gives a rats toss bag about would surely see you heading to Kona if you entered. By chance of course.

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The authorities going after the Kona lottery is stupid beyond belief.

Somebody filed a complaint against WTC regarding running an illegal Lottery??

http://www.justice.gov/file/complaint/download

 

 

They'll probably just change it's name from "Lottery" to "WildCard"

Just like some other sporting events that have "Wildcard" entries.

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Why not make entry fee for lottery $70 and if you get a slot that includes your entry fee . Problem solved

Btw I won a spot last year fcuk it was good x

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So do I get my money back? "Forfeited to the United States for disposition" makes me think they are going to go piss my money up the wall but surely would be right to return it to the entrants (minus the Active fee of course - gotta keep Mike Reilly happy don't we?)

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So do I get my money back? "Forfeited to the United States for disposition" makes me think they are going to go piss my money up the wall but surely would be right to return it to the entrants (minus the Active fee of course - gotta keep Mike Reilly happy don't we?)

I think Mike sold out of active.

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Looks like it's simply that they are illegal in Florida. Maybe they set up a wholly owned subsiduary in Nevada, and they can continue to keep milking the Triathlon community. $2.7M USD in 3 years. Not bad for giving people the opportunity to pay to enter.

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Heh.

vicious rumour

So WTC have been wanting to get rid of the lottery in its normal form for a while, as they can make more from the legacy program.

But due to the T&C's from when Valerie Silk sold the race, they have not been able to.

Until now, as now they can say - "well, we would love to, but the DOJ says no"

 

(Please note, these are the thoughts of someone going through caffiene withdrawal and any references to truth or real life are completely circumstantial)

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As someone who has pursued the lottery option I am not sad to see it replaced. In my view the whole 'I want to do an ironman and it has to be Kona' is silly. I reckon replacing the lottery with a series of small lotteries drawn at each of the full distance IM qualifying races from the finishers in that race is the preferred option - perhaps between 2 and 5 lottery slots per race ...

If WTC were to forgo the income created by the lottery, I reckon one sure way to ingratiate themselves to punters would be to spread the spots around.

Just look at the excitement generated here for the 10 lottery spots drawn at Port this year.

No need for the "Legends" multiple entry situation.

If you finish the race , you go into the draw. You'd still have to pay for your Kona entry, but by finishing you've validated your spot.

I'm sure John and Judy Collins would be happy with "that" sort of Lottery.

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Yeah. I think I heard something about that [emoji6]

Is that about mike Reilly selling active .com

 

If I didn't have peter on ignore I might know something about that

I thought mike still owned active

 

Cheers

Ivp

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Is that about mike Reilly selling active .com

 

If I didn't have peter on ignore I might know something about that

I thought mike still owned active

 

Cheers

Ivp

I think i heard he sold out. Mite have known the lottery c##h c#w was headed for the abattoir

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