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Shiv notice "urgent"

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The TO's at Husky were simply advised to pass on the information to all riders who may have been affected by this information and leave the decision to ride or not up to them. TO's visually inspect all bikes as they come into transition to see if they appear race ready but make no "certification" as to any bikes structural integrity. If it is something obvious they may take all steps to either fix the issue or advise the athlete they need to find another bike - EG; a missing front or rear brake caliper.

 

The myriad of possible legal implications that could flow from a serious injury or death that could be attributed to this particular "stop ride" notice boggles the mind.

 

Many RD's will be scratching around and reading the fine print on all their insurance information before their next event and hopefully advise all concerned what the most cost effective and safe approach is.

 

A couple of competitors came into transition at husky with the affected bikes and advised that their LBS had corrected the problem but how can any TO be sure? I didn't have an electron microscope handy to examine all bolts for any possible signs of fatigue.

 

Wollongong Tri is on next weekend, so I hope a solution is advised by then.

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Thank heavens for Transitions as I just came across this thread as I've not been contacted by anyone regarding this matter and have been riding my Shiv unaware of this issue. I'm doing IMNZ so was a little concerned initially but confident Specialized would come up with a solution. Having searched far and wide for information I found this:

 

http://ibd.specialized.com/media/whatsnew/SpecializedNZ_ShivUpdate2_27-2-2015.pdf

 

I've sent a booking request and hopefully it will all be resolved well before the race. Good on Specialized for sorting this out, not an easy situation to manage.

Edited by etiennevt
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Just picked up my new bars from cyclespeet. 3T Aura. Look like they were meant to be on there. But a bit narrower than I'm used to. Will see how it rides tomorrow.

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From Triathlon Australia today

 

“In regard to the safety notice released by Specialized, Triathlon Australia releases the following commentary on our position.

Under the Triathlon Australia race competition rules;
1.1. “Competitors must:
b. be responsible for their own safety, the safety of their own equipment and be considerate of the safety of others;”

At some events Triathlon Australia Technical Officials may perform a visual check of competitors bikes in or around transition. This is only a cursory check of the bicycle to ensure the bicycle complies with the Triathlon Australia Race Competition Rules. It is not a check of the bicycle’s roadworthiness. We would always encourage competitors to ensure their equipment is checked regularly to ensure it safe for the activity they are involved in.

Triathlon Australia officials will only stop an athlete from competing where there is an obvious item which contravenes the Triathlon Australia Race Competition Rules.
Triathlon Australia officials will not be specifically stopping competitors with specialized bicycles as we expect competitors to have considered their own safety as detailed in the Race Competition Rules stated above. A full set of race competition rules is available on the Triathlon Australia website.

Finally we would also encourage any competitors who are affected by this safety notice to contact Specialized and make the appropriate remedy if required, before competing.”

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From Triathlon Australia today

 

“In regard to the safety notice released by Specialized, Triathlon Australia releases the following commentary on our position.

Under the Triathlon Australia race competition rules;

1.1. “Competitors must:

b. be responsible for their own safety, the safety of their own equipment and be considerate of the safety of others;”

At some events Triathlon Australia Technical Officials may perform a visual check of competitors bikes in or around transition. This is only a cursory check of the bicycle to ensure the bicycle complies with the Triathlon Australia Race Competition Rules. It is not a check of the bicycle’s roadworthiness. We would always encourage competitors to ensure their equipment is checked regularly to ensure it safe for the activity they are involved in.

Triathlon Australia officials will only stop an athlete from competing where there is an obvious item which contravenes the Triathlon Australia Race Competition Rules.

Triathlon Australia officials will not be specifically stopping competitors with specialized bicycles as we expect competitors to have considered their own safety as detailed in the Race Competition Rules stated above. A full set of race competition rules is available on the Triathlon Australia website.

Finally we would also encourage any competitors who are affected by this safety notice to contact Specialized and make the appropriate remedy if required, before competing.”

 

What a cop out!

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What a cop out!

 

I don't agree. I remember, back in the day, the TOs would check brakes, headsets, pedals and all sorts .... then they faced a claim from guy at the BRW in Melbourne who came down and injured himself, suing on the basis that the check was a guarantee as to safety.

 

All checks of this type stopped immediately.

 

I think Specialized have a difficult situation on their hands and they appear to be doing everything to resolve it. Maybe not enough for some, but it's like trying to find a needle in a whole stack of needles!!!

 

That said, a few of my mates here in the UK didn't know of the recall... appears to be different in different countries.

 

Hope they get it sorted ASAP for anyone affected - this is the last thing you need!

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So does this mean that -

 

Irrespective of an ACCC notice it's OK for the individual to determine if their bike is safe to ride in a racing environment where many people are riding.

Edited by Bill D B

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So does this mean that -

 

Irrespective of an ACCC notice it's OK for the individual to determine if their bike is safe to ride in a racing environment where many people are riding.

If it is solely up to the individual to decide then I reckon it's up to Specialized, the race director and TA to ensure that each person clearly knows that Specialized are saying that the bike should not be ridden until it is fixed.

Each person should also know that they would be negligent in their responsibility to others if they don't get the problem fixed.

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I don't agree. I remember, back in the day, the TOs would check brakes, headsets, pedals and all sorts .... then they faced a claim from guy at the BRW in Melbourne who came down and injured himself, suing on the basis that the check was a guarantee as to safety.

 

All checks of this type stopped immediately.

 

I think Specialized have a difficult situation on their hands and they appear to be doing everything to resolve it. Maybe not enough for some, but it's like trying to find a needle in a whole stack of needles!!!

 

That said, a few of my mates here in the UK didn't know of the recall... appears to be different in different countries.

 

Hope they get it sorted ASAP for anyone affected - this is the last thing you need!

 

I think this case is different as it is a known identified problem and people have been told not to ride the bikes.

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How do you show proof to someone who might not know what they are looking for? I'm about to go get a new set of bars for my shiv. I'm not expecting a receipt as I'm not paying for them.

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What a cop out!

That's one way of putting it.

 

Putting it back on the individual rider may not be ideal given what we know about this potential failure.

 

Can of worms, legally speaking.....

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IMNZ just posted an update on this on Facebook. Someone will find the link.

Edited by Rog

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Yeah, this has been over social media from yesterday and today. I also got emailed last night by James from Specialized NZ with the attached as well.

 

http://m.ironman.com/~/media/3e621184a35a4189b4e69dec21087787/specialized%20shivupdate2.pdf

 

It's a crap situation for sure, but can't think of much else they could offer (for IMNZ competitors) this close. Interesting that the solution removes the ability to adjust the angle of the extensions, probably one reason people purchased a Shiv (adjustability etc.).

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So that's great, what about Australia? I'm not paying for a new set of bars, as I bet I will not get a cent out of Specialized if I did.

 

I race next weekend at Wollongong.

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I am sure they are working on a total plan and I have to commend them on having a solution quickly for IMNZ...

 

People need to remember that stuff takes time - and yep people are affected but we need to also understand that this was not something planned for an in my eyes under 1 month is a "very quick" solution.

 

Yes, easy for me to say as I am not affected but maybe also not biased

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If it is solely up to the individual to decide then I reckon it's up to Specialized, the race director and TA to ensure that each person clearly knows that Specialized are saying that the bike should not be ridden until it is fixed.

Each person should also know that they would be negligent in their responsibility to others if they don't get the problem fixed.

 

 

So does this mean that -

 

Irrespective of an ACCC notice it's OK for the individual to determine if their bike is safe to ride in a racing environment where many people are riding.

 

It means you contributed to any neglgence claim you have (and it is reduced accordingly).

 

It means anyone hurt by your stupidity in riding an unsafe product at high speed in a competitive, dangerous environment would have a claim against you. And that Spec, or an RD, or anyone else an injured person sued could join you. With new proportionate liability regime (basically one person only liable for their percentage of contribution to loss), you are likely to get joined even if you are broke.

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I am sure they are working on a total plan and I have to commend them on having a solution quickly for IMNZ...

 

People need to remember that stuff takes time - and yep people are affected but we need to also understand that this was not something planned for an in my eyes under 1 month is a "very quick" solution.

 

Yes, easy for me to say as I am not affected but maybe also not biased

I agree.

 

Makes me wonder though. They have come up with a solution pretty quickly. In less than a week they've issued the notice, designed a solution, engineered and produced it, tests that it actually solves the problem, had it approved and shipped enough parts to nz to sort competitors out.

 

What are the chances they've been working on this fix for a while?

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This engineer has to ask the elephant-in-the-room question.

 

How good is their engineering design checking system? How come this was not picked up before it even hit the CAD?

 

I wouldn't be pouring praise on them for finally identifying and rectifying a serious design flaw.

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People here are saying they've had 2 or 3 fail over the years. have they gone back to Spec? How long have Spec known it was a problem? What was the trigger, after what must be in reality hundreds of failures, to finally come clean?

 

I'm not saying good on them yet.

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Just picked up my new bars from cyclespeet. 3T Aura. Look like they were meant to be on there. But a bit narrower than I'm used to. Will see how it rides tomorrow.

 

Hope the bars went well and that this shemozzle hasn't interrupted your prep too much...

 

What was the damage if you don't mind me asking? I bought my Shiv from Andrew in late-2013...I'm not in for Melb this year, so don't have that pressure to deal with, but I'd be interested to know how the changeover unfolded...

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Hope the bars went well and that this shemozzle hasn't interrupted your prep too much...

 

What was the damage if you don't mind me asking? I bought my Shiv from Andrew in late-2013...I'm not in for Melb this year, so don't have that pressure to deal with, but I'd be interested to know how the changeover unfolded...

 

Bars are good - definitely feel more aero (might be kidding myself). Rode 100 yesterday with some upper back tingling but no crazy pain. I was able to keep my extensions which aren't affected by the recall and fit into the 3T mounts, Having some problems getting my BTA setup to work though because these bars are narrow as hell,

 

Andrew and Asher moved heaven and earth to get the bars changed over (2 days from drop off to ride away), knowing

1) that I have IMM soon and am shitting myself; and

2) (I presume) that I am a long-standing customer with a robust sense of entitlement and a legal background...

 

Given you aren't doing IMM, our situations are a bit different (and anyway, mine is not yet fully resolved). I suggest just giving them a call. Andrew is pretty straightforward but he has to deal with Spec as well.

 

Obviously if you are happy with your current set up, spec will fix it with the new bolt set up pretty soon.

Edited by Phoebus
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Cheers for the info...

 

Good luck for the 22nd...hopefully there's bit less wind around than there has been this weekend!!

 

:scared:

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People here are saying they've had 2 or 3 fail over the years. have they gone back to Spec? How long have Spec known it was a problem? What was the trigger, after what must be in reality hundreds of failures, to finally come clean?

 

I'm not saying good on them yet.

 

Exactly. That they have released three new models of the years, each inheriting the same design flaw is quite an indictment.

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Spoke to my lbs this morning. Apparently the fix Specialized has announced for IMNZ competitors is temporary and just designed to get them through the race. The actual components aren't ready yet. Estimated time frame of 2 to 6 weeks.

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Specialized in the US has released the follwing on their website replacing the current extension clamp with the Low Stack Clamp

 

http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/aerobar-5.pdf

 

It hasn't been uploaded to the Australian site as yet though

 

I think you've misunderstood this. All it is saying is that the low stack clamp doesn't need to be fixed while the normal one does.

 

Also, does no-one proof-read their stuff? I type like a one fingered orang-utan with elephantiasis on here but I'm not getting paid for it!

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Also, does no-one proof-read their stuff? I type like a one fingered orang-utan with elephantiasis on here but I'm not getting paid for it!

 

At least it's spelt right! Pity it's the wrong word....... by a long shot!

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Extension mountain......did not know I had one of those on my bike, although if I read correctly, it might be the height of a mountain compared to the low stack clamp, which I may need yoga to use too.

 

No-one proof-reads. The quiet rooms here have phones that say "quite room".

Edited by MissJess

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Dammit, this solution wont suit me as my arm pad were moved backwards, they are not sitting on the top of the aerobar anymore...

 

 

As Phoebus said, Im pretty sure this isnt the solution just a statement that if you have the low stack extensions you are not affected by the recall/ do not ride notice.

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From an email just sent by the shop that sold me the bike.

 

Please contact our stores if you are concerned your equipment is affected by the recall or you wish to start the recall process. Proof of purchase is paramount with all claims so please also ensure that this is on hand.

 

Might prove a bit tough for secondhand owners.

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From an email just sent by the shop that sold me the bike.

 

Please contact our stores if you are concerned your equipment is affected by the recall or you wish to start the recall process. Proof of purchase is paramount with all claims so please also ensure that this is on hand.

 

Might prove a bit tough for secondhand owners.

Unless like my bike shop they are offering to swap the original bars with a different brand. Otherwise I've been told it doesnt matter where you got your bike from, once the fix is done and been distributed any specialized shop can fix it for no cost.

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Spoke to my lbs this morning. Apparently the fix Specialized has announced for IMNZ competitors is temporary and just designed to get them through the race. The actual components aren't ready yet. Estimated time frame of 2 to 6 weeks.

Has anyone seen or have a picture of what was done for the bikes at IMNZ? If the timeframe for the long term fix is 2-6 weeks then there's a good chance IM Melb riders would get the same temporary fix as IMNZ riders.

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Big Chris is booked in for tomorrow morning to have his fixed at IMNZ so if he gets a chance I asked him for a photo

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From Big Chris on site in aotearoa

About to go back and pick bike up.

All explained this morning - new bars and laydowns. ( one hour turnaround -
free coffee from coffee van and lounge area to wait if you want)

They have a comparison bar - left side new and right side old - interesting.

 

I will get pic of that too.

 

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Ok this just in! Im not a shiv owner but it looks like the NEW fix is on the left. Looks like a new set of shims to hold the low rise bars in stead of the old stack arrangement.

 

From Big Chris

 

Find 3 pics attached with example of fix.

You keep your handle bars, top mounting brackets and extensions are the only replacements.

James Elvery
Marketing & Business Development
Specialized Bicycles, New Zealand

Ok'ed me to take the pics - noting this is the solution supplied from Specialized for Ironman NZ. Future events and locality , specialized might have different fix.

 

 

 

 

Shiv2_zpscg33udvd.jpg

Shiv1_zpsuqzzu3ns.jpg
Shiv3_zpset4vtwsl.jpg
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Thanks Roxii and Chris :) Looks pretty robust. Have a great race Chris I hope the weather is good for you.

 

A question - is the fix mandatory ie. can you race without the modification?

 

Cheers

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It does indeed look pretty solid and robust... however, unless I'm missing it, I can't see a way to angle the aero-bars upwards a little more - they look fixed in place horizontally - I have mine a degree and half pointed up... rather negates the flexibility and adjustability of the Shiv - which is one of the reasons I bought it... Doh... Anyone see a way to have the bars angled at anything other than flat?

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AJS yeah in one of the previous press releases they did say this. See quote below from http://m.ironman.com/~/media/3e621184a35a4189b4e69dec21087787/specialized%20shivupdate2.pdf

 

 

REPLACEMENT PARTS Our engineers have developed replacement aerobar extension mounting hardware of a different design to the current set-up. This new mount eliminates the potential problems, and is a permanent measure. The new mount secures the extensions in a horizontal position by two bolts and removes the aerobar extension angle adjustment. Your current individual position will be measured precisely and replicated as closely as possible. There will be a Specialized Body Geometry Fit Technician on hand to assist you to achieve the optimal fit.

 

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Bloody hell - that's a huge change, from the pictures it looks like the bars are now off centre so are narrower, and the aero bars don't come all the way back so my BTA system wouldn't work, and the cabling is compromised. Hopefully there is a better option for IMM otherwise i'll have to rethink my bottle placement.

 

Thanks for sending these in - very useful, but now i'm even more anxious :shock:

Edited by spudmonkey32

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