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RunBrettRun

Do you race on the same cassette you train on?

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Just wondering what people do here? Ive never changed the cassette from what my bike came with so always been riding on an 11-28 but when I tried a different type of cassette last year I felt very sluggish and didn't seem to be able to keep my cadence up. So what is the solution should I be looking at changing my cassette to ride on all the time?

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Why change? I always use the same cassette (12 x 25).

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I'm the same as Rog, all my cassettes are generally the same (I have a couple of 11-25 at the moment). Sometimes if I know I am going mountains, this fat kid puts a 12-28 on.

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I don't change. I just read on another post that running an 11-28 on a race wheel wasn't the way to go.... It's what I am currently using cause I didn't know any better to be honest. Is it worth changing?

 

What would the advantage be to going to an 11-25 or a 12-25?

 

Most of the riding we do here on the gc is over hills out in the hinterland although any hard efforts are done on the flat.

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No advantage. You will be better off than most people who think they are too cool to ride a 28. In fact I think 28 is the perfect choice for Port if you're not a super strong cyclist. That will get you through Matthew Flinders Dr without red lining it.

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Easy to change cassettes, so why not change (occasionaly) for different terrain, e.g. for flat Beach Rd 11-23, but if include Oliver's Hill 12-25. I don't agree with the heroes pushing big gears up hills, asking for issues/injuries.

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Ok thanks guys, I rode with a guy who is probably a little weaker on a bike than me yesterday who said he rides a 12-25 because he finds the gearing better (closer together, his words) but he had changed back to his original 11-28 to ride with me on the coast.

 

I think I'll stick with what I know for now, I know how to change a cassette so if I get another one I can play around with it on a couple rides a week.

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I change mine up.

 

For sprint/od/70.3 in south east queensland i roll with 12-25 because races are always so flat. No need for the 28 or 11 but get the comfort of a few gears closer together.

 

Port I'll switch to a combo with 28(or 27) as I don't want to burn any so will need the spin. Smallest will stay 12.

 

Training I normally ride the 12-25 and often end up working hard on hills.

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I run a 25 on training bikes, as its flat here and that's what they came with. But I have a 28 I put on my race wheels for races with hills.

 

Easy enough to change and I have multiple bikes and wheels to mix and match

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No advantage. You will be better off than most people who think they are too cool to ride a 28. In fact I think 28 is the perfect choice for Port if you're not a super strong cyclist. That will get you through Matthew Flinders Dr without red lining it.

Totally agree with rog (about port)

My new bike just came with a 11-28 ( 11 speed) and I thought I would find the gaps in between too much but I'm really loving having a 28 on the back after useing a 25 for the last ten years or so

I do live in some pretty big hills and I'm not going any slower with the 28

I will be putting the same cassette size cassette on my race wheels also

Cheers

Ivp

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I run what came with the bike,probably a 13-25. My race wheels have a similar cassette. The only time i have changed a cassette for a race was IMNZ at Taupo when I was running 9 speed and wanted a tight cluster so ran 12-21. Left this cassette on until had to walk out of Church Point

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What cassette you run is very important in my opinion. Having the correct cassette for the particular race course will maximise your speed and save you a lot of time on the bike leg.

You need to run the tightest cassette you can to keep the cog gaps within 1 tooth of each other so that you can maintain optimum cadence which equals optimum speed.

For example on a dead flat course with no wind you could possibly run the perfect cassette 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21. The one tooth gap between cogs means you can always find the perfect pedalling cadence, a change up or down gears 'fine tunes' your cadence to match your speed / speed to match cadence.

When you throw a cog on either end of the cassette, you lose one in the middle. This is a necessary evil.

 

So some common cassettes :

11-28 is 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28

11-25 is 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25

12-25 is 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25

12-23 is 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23

 

11-28 and 11-25 have no 16 cog and no 18 cog

12-25 has no 18 cog

 

What's the big deal about not having a 16 cog or an 18 cog? Have a look at this chart:

 

Cadence 80 85 90 95

53-15 35.5 37.8 40kph 42.2kph

53-16 33.3 35.4 37.5 39.6

53-17 31.4 33.4 35.4 37.3 kph

53-18 29.6 31.5 33.3 35.2

53-19 28.1 29.9 31.6 33.4 kph

 

Considering that most people in an Ironman or 70.3 would be trying to average somewhere in the region of 31 to 35 kph you can see that by deleting the second and fourth row you are limiting your cadence options. If you were trying to sit on 35 kph for example, on a 12-23 cassette you could do cadence 80 in 53-15, cadence 85 in 53-16, cadence 90 in 53-17, cadence 95 in 53-18. If your cassette was 11-25 or 11-28 you have to pedal at cadence 80 in the 15 cog or 90 in the 17 cog. You have a cadence range of 10 rpm as opposed to the other cassette which gives you a cadence range of just 5 rpm per gear change. Tighter gearing means almost perfect cadence. Pedalling a slightly too hard gear means you are hurting your legs which you will pay for on the run, and pedalling too small a gear means you are going slower than you should be.

 

Or look at it another way, you are in the 15 cog trying to maintain 40kp on a sector. Cadence starts to drop from your preferred 90 as you are finding it a bit tough so you decide to change down a gear. Without a 16 you go straight to the 17. You cadence which was 90 is now 85 as you change gear and suddenly you are doing 33kph instead of 40. Even if you up your cadence back to 90 you are still doing 5kph slower now. Big difference.

 

I guess for most people its a moot point, but you can bet that triathletes at the point end of the race pay a lot of attention to matching the cassette to the course. Even for average people its no big deal to train on wheels with 11 or 12-28 and having a "race cassette" on the disc wheel, 12-21 or 12-23.

 

Whether you need an 11 will depend on the course. 53-12 is 53kph at cadence 95.

 

Personally, for cycling time trials or triathlons I would recommend 12-21 or 12-23. If you need an easier gear than that then use the small chainring for that particular hill or headwind section.

As I said it all depends on the course, the rider, personal preference.

Edited by Derny Driver
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I sort of agree with you DD but as of yet I haven't noticed the missing 16 and 18 cogs

I'm not sure if I had been useing a11-25 or a 12-25 for ever

If I had the 11 25 then it won't be any different to what I've been useing apart from the last two gears

 

I think also looking at the speed avg doesn't really applie unless you are racing on a velodrome indoors

Because if i avg 35kph say at port that would be made up of lots of 60 plus kph all the way back to many 10 kph and lots of inbetweens

Cheers

Ivp

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Thanks for all the input, DD I appreciate the lengthy explanation it makes a lot more sense now. I have ordered a 12-25 so I can play around with it but plan to stick with the 11-28 for port. I plan to do a few 70.3 races next year one of which is Sunshine Coast so I assume this will be a good course to try a different cassette on.

 

Cheers

Brett

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I think you also need to look at what chain rings you have up front as that changes things as well. I have compacts at present and find them great, my new group set is gong to be semi compacts. I think the compacts allow you to ride a close cassette with good top end and bottom end gear options.

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I am with DD I think it makes a big differnce. Perhaps less so on the new 11 speed over 10. I like tight gearing after learning a lesson a few years ago on the flat section to Lake Cathie. I just couldn't find the right cadence I was either spinning or pushing to hard.

 

 

I run a standard crank

 

I usually train on a 12-27.

Rolling hill race 12-25

TT such as calga or a flat crit 11-23

 

I am now investing in 12-30 to get up North Brother.

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Ok thanks guys, I rode with a guy who is probably a little weaker on a bike than me yesterday who said he rides a 12-25 because he finds the gearing better (closer together, his words) but he had changed back to his original 11-28 to ride with me on the coast.

I think I'll stick with what I know for now, I know how to change a cassette so if I get another one I can play around with it on a couple rides a week.

Brett, I probably ride the same training grounds as u but on a 11-23, i raced port half on a 12-25 which is what I generally race on in OD's and under and only found it tough up flinders on the second lap. If u keep focus and hit the rollers with speed I doubt u would need the 28

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Brett, I probably ride the same training grounds as u but on a 11-23, i raced port half on a 12-25 which is what I generally race on in OD's and under and only found it tough up flinders on the second lap. If u keep focus and hit the rollers with speed I doubt u would need the 28

Last time I was at port the winds threw me around so much I was too scared to get on the bars on a downhill stetch and never got the momentum to use up the other side...

I do 80% of my training in numinbah valley and up beechmont/binna burra but I've never seen you out there ;-)

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There are different cassettes???

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I do 80% of my training in numinbah valley and up beechmont/binna burra but I've never seen you out there ;-)

 

Thats cause I'm in a car lol

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Just wondering what people do here? Ive never changed the cassette from what my bike came with so always been riding on an 11-28 but when I tried a different type of cassette last year I felt very sluggish and didn't seem to be able to keep my cadence up. So what is the solution should I be looking at changing my cassette to ride on all the time?

Train on 11-23 race on 11-21 or 11-23 depending on course.- typically 11-21 though.

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A lot depends on the rider, also depends on compact, semi compact or big boy cranks, also location, the smaller difference in the cassette, gives you less missing gears, I run 12-25 11 speed with semi compact cranks everywhere

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Have 11 speed on my bikes now and run an 11-25 on each of them.

 

My new bike has a 52/36 chain ring set. Best move I ever made. I dabbled a little in the 50/34 but found it just a little too small for living in Brisbane. However if I was living in a mountainous area it would be a great option.

 

When I was on 10 speed with a 53/39 I would always choose the 11-28.

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We're travelling home now from a week in the Snowy mountains. There were two days I wished for a 34 rather than a 39. I might suppress my pride if we do a similar week next year.

Edited by tortoise

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Same cassettes on all three bikes. The only thing I change is my small front chainring on my race bike. Normally run a 39 / 52 but change that to 48 / 52 for some of the shorter undulating bike legs for races on beach road, Kew blvd and Hazelwood. Been doing this for years and it suits my style of riding.

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2 bikes, 3 rear wheels, 3 different cassettes. 12/23 on trainer wheel and thought I'd use that cassette on flat races. 12/25 on tri bike wheel as it's what I had. 12/27 on roadie for getting up hills. No compact cranks. I'd use what I figured suited the ride. I'm a bit of a grinder, and at mool od, even with the climbs out of and back into mool I haven't dropped out of the big ring yet so I figure I could handle a 12/23.

I wish I'd used the 12/27 at HB100 :o :embarrassed:

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We're travelling home now from a week in the Snowy mountains. There were two days I wished for a 34 rather than a 39. I might suppress my pride if we do a similar week next year.

Ha! Just on my way back from Jindi as I type!

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Ha! Just on my way back from Jindi as I type!

We did a 2hr recovery roll from Manly to Church Point and return this morning. Talk about cruisy! These overtraining weeks do pay off! Might forget about that 34 after all.

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Agree very much with Derny Driver. I find the 18 tooth cog on the rear essential for a triathlon.

 

Train with an 10-speed 11-25 on both Road and Tri Bike

 

Have a 10-speed 12-21 on my Disc Wheel for flat courses and a 12-23 on a Zipp 808 rear for slightly hillier courses

 

Would switch to an easier cassette for a really hilly tri course if one existed (rode the 12-21 on Mornington/Mt Martha with no problems).

 

Will purchase an 11-28 for my Road Bike for the 3 Peaks Challenge in May

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Agree that the 18 tooth cog is a great gear to have and having it is great to reduce cadence variations.

 

The 12-25 11 speed DA Shimano cassette

 

12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,21,23,25

 

is perfect for me for both racing and training - hills or flats - on the type of terrain I take the tri bike. I don't take the tri bike on any big hills like the Victorian alps because I'm scared of high speed descents on the tri bike.

 

The 12-25 lets me ride just about all tri courses on the big chain ring (53/39) and the 11 speed cassette has no big cadence jump points and I don't spin out with the 12 tooth cog.

 

Now I just need to work out the best way to put an 11 speed cassette on my old 808's.

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We're travelling home now from a week in the Snowy mountains. There were two days I wished for a 34 rather than a 39. I might suppress my pride if we do a similar week next year.

 

I'm learning lots and lots about bikes atm as I got me some shiny new wheels for Christmas. So I have learnt that my existing bike runs 50/34 on the front and an 11-28 cassette. I definitely needed the 28 last week and would have liked a 32 (if such a thing exists) during some of the climbs (that climb from the Brumby distillery to the top of Crackenback nearly broke me!) When you say you would've preferred a 34 rather than a 39, I presume this is the front? Is it common to change the front? Why would you change that rather than the back? Sorry for the newbie questions...
From what DD says "11-28 is 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28". I don't use 11 or 12 and rarely 13. I would say that I sit in 14-21 most of the time. But there is no 12-28. I have to choose between 11-28 and 12-27. I don't think I can change my front any lower either. hmmmm decisions decisions...
(And I now have to choose which tyres and tubes to get - at least I've decided on that vs clinchers)

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Hi Boggy

There are 2 types of cranksets - standard which are usually 39 teeth small chainring and 53 teeth big chainring, and "compact" crankset which you have (34 and 50). There is something new called "mid-compact" which uses a 36 small chainring. Whatever your bike comes with, you really need to stick to in terms of chainring sizes as you cannot really change the chainring sizes. You cannot swap your 34 tooth for a 39 or vice versa. The most you can do is change by 1 tooth usually.

 

Your compact crankset with 34 chainring, say on your 28 cog is 15% easier to pedal than a standard 39-28. The smaller the large chainring, the easier it is to pedal the gear. People consider changing the front chainring to something smaller when they run out of options on the rear cassette. Your cassette size is limited by the rear derailleur, most can only handle up to a 28 tooth cog. I have put a 29 on my son's 10 speed Ultegra and it changes okay and clears everything, but only just. I have heard that you can squeeze a 30 tooth cassette on, but I personally haven't seen it. Next time you do the Snowy Mountains rides you could try a 12-30 cassette. Tiagra cassettes have some great options too. As I have said elsewhere, Tiagra cassettes are fine, they are cheap, strong and lots of A grade cyclists are using them. If you wanted some sort of weird and wonderful cassette option made up like a 14 to 30 or something, if Shimano don't make it then ring Paul Hillbrick at Hillbrick bikes Sydney and they can make you a custom Miche cassette which is Shimano/Sram or Campag compatible. Costs slightly more than an off the shelf stock standard factory one.

 

Since you already have a 34 tooth chainring you do not have the option to go smaller than that so the best you can do if you want easier gearing is to put on a cassette with a 29 or 30. The difference is small but you would notice it. If you wanted to put a 34 cog on the rear on then you would need a longer rear derailleur and a longer chain ..you would have to get a bike shop to look into that.

Edited by Derny Driver
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I'm learning lots and lots about bikes atm as I got me some shiny new wheels for Christmas. So I have learnt that my existing bike runs 50/34 on the front and an 11-28 cassette. I definitely needed the 28 last week and would have liked a 32 (if such a thing exists) during some of the climbs (that climb from the Brumby distillery to the top of Crackenback nearly broke me!) When you say you would've preferred a 34 rather than a 39, I presume this is the front? Is it common to change the front? Why would you change that rather than the back? Sorry for the newbie questions...
From what DD says "11-28 is 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28". I don't use 11 or 12 and rarely 13. I would say that I sit in 14-21 most of the time. But there is no 12-28. I have to choose between 11-28 and 12-27. I don't think I can change my front any lower either. hmmmm decisions decisions...
(And I now have to choose which tyres and tubes to get - at least I've decided on that vs clinchers)

 

 

Yup, the front. I already have 28 on the back using my training wheels. 34/28 would make most climbs relatively easy.

 

I think the distillery to the top of Crackenback hill you are talking about is the aptly named OF hill. The one that starts where the yellow snow paint starts, turns right and just keeps on delivering right up to the red and white letter box at Ivo's Farm. OF because that is what just slips out when you turn the corner. I actually find it harder from the Thredbo side.

 

In terms of tyres, for training you can't go past Conti Black Chilli.

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I forgot to say that I'm running 12-28 11sp shimano for training, so it does exist.

Stick with what you have, do hill work this year and you'll find even OF hill is easier next summer. I managed it just fine, along with the 13km climb from the river to Rennix Gap on the way to Charlotte Pass.

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Your compact crankset with 34 chainring, say on your 28 cog is 15% easier to pedal than a standard 39-28.

...

Your cassette size is limited by the rear derailleur, most can only handle up to a 28 tooth cog. I have put a 29 on my son's 10 speed Ultegra and it changes okay and clears everything, but only just. I have heard that you can squeeze a 30 tooth cassette on, but I personally haven't seen it.

Thanks DD - I think I just need to do what tortoise has said and HTFU and do some hill training! I will keep the 28 though!

 

Yup, the front. I already have 28 on the back using my training wheels. 34/28 would make most climbs relatively easy.

 

I think the distillery to the top of Crackenback hill you are talking about is the aptly named OF hill. The one that starts where the yellow snow paint starts, turns right and just keeps on delivering right up to the red and white letter box at Ivo's Farm. OF because that is what just slips out when you turn the corner. I actually find it harder from the Thredbo side.

 

In terms of tyres, for training you can't go past Conti Black Chilli.

 

Thanks! Yep, something like OF came out of my mouth the first time I did it! I managed it ok, but my cadence certainly wasn't at 90! lol I actually found it OK from the Thredbo side... Not quite a steep and nowhere near as long

 

I forgot to say that I'm running 12-28 11sp shimano for training, so it does exist.

Stick with what you have, do hill work this year and you'll find even OF hill is easier next summer. I managed it just fine, along with the 13km climb from the river to Rennix Gap on the way to Charlotte Pass.

 

I've been meaning to do hill repeats on the bike, but it never happens... I didn't get to do Jindi to CP this year which I am disappointed about, but did it last year - where else do you get a 13km hill... But at least it isn't as steep as OF hill...

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No- train hard race easy :)

 

Train on a bike with shimano 105, 23 rear cluster

Race with SRAM red and a 27 rear cluster

Edited by sunnygirl

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Yes, but don't ask what gearing it is because I haven't got a clue. Couldn't tell you how big my chain rings are or even how many gears I've got. I've got a bike and I just ride it (sometimes) that's all :shy:!

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Yes, but don't ask what gearing it is because I haven't got a clue. Couldn't tell you how big my chain rings are or even how many gears I've got. I've got a bike and I just ride it (sometimes) that's all :shy:!

 

+1

 

FM

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