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FatPom

Prince 2, what to expect?

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As part of my redundancy I may be able to get the evil empire to pay for a Prince 2 course (foundation and certification, 5 days). I'm not a PM but that type of thing is becoming more prominent as everyone is expected to do more for less. It has to be done before end of Aug so I don't have too much time to debate the merits or look into alternatives, I'm just taking what's offered (if it gets offered).

 

Anyone done it? What can I expect?

 

Thx

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very dry content (although I've only done foundation, not done practitioner yet). Might as well do it if they're going to pay for it, it's a nice little addition to a CV. I think you will find a bucket load of people already have this or an equivalent.

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I had to google it. PM in a CONTROLLED environment sounds like heaven to me.

 

Try PM in a totally out of control environment defines my working life.

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I'm a practitioner - dry content - I did mine online through UXC training (they paid) apart from the exam which was booked to coincide with a course date.

 

I also hold a PMP, but you need work experience to sit the exam.

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I did it around a year ago

 

Agreed it's pretty dry, but easy to tick off in a week as long as you think within the Prince structure.

At times you almost have to forget any PMBOK knowledge or any other methodology / personal experience.

 

A lot of job descriptions list it, personally and talking to friends haven't come across any company that implements it 100% in Aust, and I work in IT which Prince was initially developed for

 

If you are in the UK then it is a lot more common, as it's a UK standard.

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As part of my redundancy I may be able to get the evil empire to pay for a Prince 2 course (foundation and certification, 5 days). I'm not a PM but that type of thing is becoming more prominent as everyone is expected to do more for less. It has to be done before end of Aug so I don't have too much time to debate the merits or look into alternatives, I'm just taking what's offered (if it gets offered).

 

Anyone done it? What can I expect?

 

Thx

Dry week, as long as you attend for at least half the time you will waltz through foundation. Practicioner requires you to get the hang of the way they ask questions as opposed to advanced knowledge of the material.

 

Those last two days will be a bit of brain smash as you do lots of practice questions learning how they think about their very specific language and method.

 

Oh yeah it's boring process crap that is engineering common sense but recruiters especially in UK seem to like it. Eg: experienced PM needed, oh yeah here's what I've done, insert 16 years experience. Ah but your not Prince 2 sorry need to to hire somebody with no experience with a PRINCE 2 certificate

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I'm doing both exams on Friday. It makes sense to me because I have a background in corporate governance, and many of the principles are common with good governance theory (learning from experience, reporting by exception, etc)

 

If you're tossing up whether or not to do it, I say you might as well. The principles will make you a better manager overall, not just where projects are involved. Plus as Barry said, it's better to have a piece of paper than to not

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I did them (work offered) and I am not a PM.

Why not I say? The certifications will be good on your cv as it will show some extra skills and structured/recognised training.

Not the most exciting week, but if you have a good class, could be good networking opportunity. I also did the MoR course

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I had to google it. PM in a CONTROLLED environment sounds like heaven to me.

 

Try PM in a totally out of control environment defines my working life.

Do you work with me????

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The outfit I look after hire 30+ project managers/program managers a year. I get involved with the Program Manager selection where I tend to go for leadership & negotiation skills but at a PM level there has to be some sort of PM methodology be it P2, Six Sigma, Extreme whatever....

 

They are all means to the same end....

 

My tip do the course and try and land a BA or PM contract role ASAP. An un applied course will age (in the eyes of a recruiter) very quickly.

 

The demand for good contract PMs is strong if you know where the work is and have some industry background.... Its not a bad gig. Hired a Program Manager last month on a full time 18 month contract at a cost 2000 EUR per day and was glad to get him!

 

Cam

Edited by TheCam

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Cam,

 

I'm not looking to be a PM, but having the ability to PM to a recognised standard will help what I do as a core role. The course will not be unapplied, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it. I don't use use generalist recruiters, just a few niche players that I've built up a relationship with over a few years.

Edited by FatPom

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Hi FP,

 

You can replace recruiter with hiring manager and if its a medium/big frim you are being pitched to (by either a niche firm or otherwise) first line HR are no different to your average recruitment type...

 

Did a quick search on our open resourcing system of 3800 currently open roles (for full time employment) 35% list PM skills as one of the top 3 selection criteria!

 

My pointer on applying the learning quickly via a contract role plays to being able to practice the methodology and when you go for the fill time role that you actually want have the killer answer rather than a theoretical answer to the "Tell me about a time when..." question and all the followups.

 

Back to the OP... What should you expect? A lot of what seems like common sense packaged up and sold as a methodology. Should you do it? Only if you intend to embed it with practice or it wont be of much help come time to sell yourself to an employer. (Hence the PM contracting advice as it worked for me and many others I know).

 

Best of luck.

 

Cam

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Hi FP,

 

You can replace recruiter with hiring manager and if its a medium/big frim you are being pitched to (by either a niche firm or otherwise) first line HR are no different to your average recruitment type...

 

Did a quick search on our open resourcing system of 3800 currently open roles (for full time employment) 35% list PM skills as one of the top 3 selection criteria!

 

My pointer on applying the learning quickly via a contract role plays to being able to practice the methodology and when you go for the fill time role that you actually want have the killer answer rather than a theoretical answer to the "Tell me about a time when..." question and all the followups.

 

Back to the OP... What should you expect? A lot of what seems like common sense packaged up and sold as a methodology. Should you do it? Only if you intend to embed it with practice or it wont be of much help come time to sell yourself to an employer. (Hence the PM contracting advice as it worked for me and many others I know).

 

Best of luck.

 

Cam

Cam who do you work for

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Hi FP,

 

You can replace recruiter with hiring manager and if its a medium/big frim you are being pitched to (by either a niche firm or otherwise) first line HR are no different to your average recruitment type...

 

Did a quick search on our open resourcing system of 3800 currently open roles (for full time employment) 35% list PM skills as one of the top 3 selection criteria!

 

My pointer on applying the learning quickly via a contract role plays to being able to practice the methodology and when you go for the fill time role that you actually want have the killer answer rather than a theoretical answer to the "Tell me about a time when..." question and all the followups.

 

Back to the OP... What should you expect? A lot of what seems like common sense packaged up and sold as a methodology. Should you do it? Only if you intend to embed it with practice or it wont be of much help come time to sell yourself to an employer. (Hence the PM contracting advice as it worked for me and many others I know).

 

Best of luck.

 

Cam

 

 

Thanks Cam,

 

I'm not sure what you're reading into my posts that suggests I won't be using it? I just wanted to know about the structure of the course. What I do for a living has an increasing focus in PMing my skills as a subset of the larger project, likewise with the engineering components, marketing, firmware etc. So I will be utilising it in that regard, plus depending on resourcing and skillsets, sometimes I'm asked to be the principal on a project anyway, so using a methodology that works and fits with the other components will be helpful.

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Thanks Cam,

 

I'm not sure what you're reading into my posts that suggests I won't be using it? I just wanted to know about the structure of the course. What I do for a living has an increasing focus in PMing my skills as a subset of the larger project, likewise with the engineering components, marketing, firmware etc. So I will be utilising it in that regard, plus depending on resourcing and skillsets, sometimes I'm asked to be the principal on a project anyway, so using a methodology that works and fits with the other components will be helpful.

 

Not reading that you wont be using it just reinforcing the value of quick application in terms of securing roles.... if you have the chance to use it directly then thats perfect.

 

@BB.... I work for a large Anglo/Dutch energy company based in The Hague

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Not reading that you wont be using it just reinforcing the value of quick application in terms of securing roles.... if you have the chance to use it directly then thats perfect.

 

@BB.... I work for a large Anglo/Dutch energy company based in The Hague

 

 

Ah gotcha, yep totally agree. I think it will be pretty useful because depending on commercial resource and skill sets, sometimes I have to wear a PM hat but not actually be a PM. It used to annoy me but it's become the norm now, so just as well formalise my approach to it.

 

Haven't heard if it's a goer yet anyway, hopefully on Mon.

 

Energy company based in The Hague? What do you do, capture and re-sell all the hot air from the MEPs? :)

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UK government technical PM methodology. Very dry and detailed. In Australia lots of companies will ask for it but then want to use and

agile methodology. In this new age of lean resourcing not many companies really using proper PM methodologies in Australia anyway.

 

Worth doing for your CV, may get you into more interviews. If project management may end up being more of your role maybe try for some change management training as well. There's a million technical project managers out there but a lot of them miss out on all the soft skills. Anyone can bang out a project plan etc - engaging the bloody stakeholders and getting them to execute is the hard bit.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Ah gotcha, yep totally agree. I think it will be pretty useful because depending on commercial resource and skill sets, sometimes I have to wear a PM hat but not actually be a PM. It used to annoy me but it's become the norm now, so just as well formalise my approach to it.

 

Haven't heard if it's a goer yet anyway, hopefully on Mon.

 

Energy company based in The Hague? What do you do, capture and re-sell all the hot air from the MEPs? :)

Royal dutch shell

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UK government technical PM methodology. Very dry and detailed. In Australia lots of companies will ask for it but then want to use and

agile methodology. In this new age of lean resourcing not many companies really using proper PM methodologies in Australia anyway.

 

Worth doing for your CV, may get you into more interviews. If project management may end up being more of your role maybe try for some change management training as well. There's a million technical project managers out there but a lot of them miss out on all the soft skills. Anyone can bang out a project plan etc - engaging the bloody stakeholders and getting them to execute is the hard bit.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'd settle for finding those ones who bang out the plans, problem is everyone decides they are now a PM, worse still when they say there are an IT Pm, it's almost as bad as Enterprise Architects. Do a TOGAF course, expect 200 K. Not enough of then actually doing it, but a lot of resume padding and Linkedin posturing

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Definitely not becoming a PM and have no desire to be one. The reason it's becoming more prominent is that depending on the project, there might not be the resource for a PM, or the project is so complex commercially and contractually ( my area) that it gets split out. So it should be a handy tool for me in regards to the latter scenario.

 

I've always the absolute worst PMs are the ones that try and get involved in the skill sets of the various elements they are bringing together. They tend to think that because they can coordinate a project that they can suddenly do, or worse, advice on the various SMEs on what they are doing. There should be a course on collective eye rolling for this. :)

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Definitely not becoming a PM and have no desire to be one. The reason it's becoming more prominent is that depending on the project, there might not be the resource for a PM, or the project is so complex commercially and contractually ( my area) that it gets split out. So it should be a handy tool for me in regards to the latter scenario.

I've always the absolute worst PMs are the ones that try and get involved in the skill sets of the various elements they are bringing together. They tend to think that because they can coordinate a project that they can suddenly do, or worse, advice on the various SMEs on what they are doing. There should be a course on collective eye rolling for this. :)

I would like to do that course anyhow I 'm more a portfolio and strategy type these days

 

Can't seem to get emoticons on this I pad

Edited by BarryBevan

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I'm on the course the week after next. Just ploughing through the pre work at the moment. I don't like the bit where they say the course is 9-5 each day plus 2-4 hrs a night on top of that!

 

It wouldn't matter normally, but I'm doing the Alpine Challenge early Sept (I couldn't withdraw for a refund because nobody else registered :( ) so that'll hurt.

 

Plus I have to go to Southampton for 5 days running, oh the humanity!!

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I passed, by the way :)

 

Nice one. I just finished Day 3 and passed Foundation, not stellar though, 76% :shy:

 

Tonight's homework is the start of the Practitioner questions and the Practitioner exam is on Friday, uuugh, even swimming is better than this!

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76% is plenty Pommy

 

If you can get 76% in Foundation, you can pass Practitioner. Just be careful though, some of the questions require you to select two choices per question, so make sure that you've done that

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76% is plenty Pommy

 

If you can get 76% in Foundation, you can pass Practitioner. Just be careful though, some of the questions require you to select two choices per question, so make sure that you've done that

 

Thanks. Yeah I saw that last night on the Practitioner Practice Paper. I also noticed you get zero marks unless both selections are correct. I found last night quite tough in practice. I got 33/40 in the test and self mark, but we had 90mins for 4 questions and I took 95 :schmoll:

 

Today's lesson is all about techniques for tomorrow and the instructor reckons he'll have us done to 15 mins or less per question by the end of today. I seem to able to do it right or do it fast but not both at the moment.

 

I also noticed the choices are much trickier and it's quite hard to use the 'elimination' process as a lot of the answers could fit (I know they don't but it's not that obvious when under time pressure). But what I really need today is a better system to access the relevant info in the book.

 

I'm enjoying it though :smile1:

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Thanks. Yeah I saw that last night on the Practitioner Practice Paper. I also noticed you get zero marks unless both selections are correct. I found last night quite tough in practice. I got 33/40 in the test and self mark, but we had 90mins for 4 questions and I took 95 :schmoll:

 

Today's lesson is all about techniques for tomorrow and the instructor reckons he'll have us done to 15 mins or less per question by the end of today. I seem to able to do it right or do it fast but not both at the moment.

 

I also noticed the choices are much trickier and it's quite hard to use the 'elimination' process as a lot of the answers could fit (I know they don't but it's not that obvious when under time pressure). But what I really need today is a better system to access the relevant info in the book.

 

I'm enjoying it though :smile1:

Use the appendix which describes each artefact other than that go with your gut and first choice and only deep dive in the book for a few. PRINCE2 has a few give aways, manage stage boundary, controlling a stage, Start up. Get the hang of who does what in those and the marks fly your way

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I'd settle for finding those ones who bang out the plans, problem is everyone decides they are now a PM, worse still when they say there are an IT Pm, it's almost as bad as Enterprise Architects. Do a TOGAF course, expect 200 K. Not enough of then actually doing it, but a lot of resume padding and Linkedin posturing

Totally agree with this....I generally don't even get to the "education" section of a CV.. I place more value on the person having practical experience and the ability to work in a team, be self managed, have a good work ethic/reputation etc.

 

I also use LinkedIn to reference check people myself.. Aus is a small place.. Everyone knows everyone.. [emoji4]

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I found it quite a bit harder. The Foundation answers were more straightforward and easy to use the process of elimination and logic, provided you knew the structure. The Prac exam was harder because a lot of multiple choice questions were two parts and you only score a mark if you get both right. Also every question is divided into two or three sections. The low hanging fruit is the first section of each question, so I took the approach to attempt all these sections first. However, if you adopt this approach you need to be very organised with regards to the answer sheet as it's easy to mark the wrong circle.

 

I found the reasoning questions the easiest (the ones that give you 2 sentences that are True/True, False/False etc. Overall though I found that there were more grey areas in the Prac. I finished with 3 mins to spare, it's very tight timing wise (at least for me!)

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I've got my Foundation exam tomorrow.

Sitting in the class room from 8:30 - 5:00, even with a lunch break, is killing me.

And our instructor tends to go round and round and round before getting to a point or answer.

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I've got my Foundation exam tomorrow.

Sitting in the class room from 8:30 - 5:00, even with a lunch break, is killing me.

And our instructor tends to go round and round and round before getting to a point or answer.

Suicide is an option, I am on my way to becoming an instructor

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There are 3 people on the course who started the course on a previous date, with a different instructor.

By morning tea on day one there was a mutiny due to the instructor being incredibly shit.

They say this guy is a billion times better than the first guy.

The training company re-scheduled their training, so I hope that other bloke isn't still training people somewhere.

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It's pretty dry, some of the worst instructors make reading the book cover to cover seem like a good option. Problem they have is that they really only have 1.5 to 2 days material and they spin it out to make more training dollars

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There are 3 people on the course who started the course on a previous date, with a different instructor.

By morning tea on day one there was a mutiny due to the instructor being incredibly shit.

They say this guy is a billion times better than the first guy.

The training company re-scheduled their training, so I hope that other bloke isn't still training people somewhere.

 

 

The day before our Prac exam we had two people new in the class. Both had failed Prac by two marks but both had different instructors previously. They said that our instructor was really good because he explained things and kept on track but they were most impressed with the exam tactics he was giving (structure, how to attack it etc) and said if they'd had that advice before they would have passed.

 

I'm not sure if they did because obviously I never saw them again but I hope so. I didn't warm to our instructor at first but after the first day I could see his approach was working. Sounds like a bit of a lottery if you get a good one.

 

Those little flag stickers that you can write on were very helpful for me splitting up the text book and making it easy to find stuff quickly.

 

Good luck :)

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Those little flag stickers that you can write on were very helpful for me splitting up the text book and making it easy to find stuff quickly.

 

 

 

Isn't PRINCE some sort of flashy IT process development project/process management course (probably considered by the franchise holder to be the greatest thing ever in it's own little corner of the universe) ?

 

How come they can't issue the textbook in searchable electronic format?

 

Dark ages, people.

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Isn't PRINCE some sort of flashy IT process development project/process management course (probably considered by the franchise holder to be the greatest thing ever in it's own little corner of the universe) ?

 

How come they can't issue the textbook in searchable electronic format?

 

Dark ages, people.

 

 

Prince 2 has nothing to do with IT processes.

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Prince 2 has nothing to do with IT processes.

There you go. I did read a couple of pages on a PRINCE site and I was darned if I could work out what it actually was.

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