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aegcp

HIM run - Need advice from a beginner regarding base training.

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Hi all. you may have seen my post about trainerroad and my background. For those who haven't, a bit of my background.


Only 1 sprint tri. Suffered both on the bike and obviously the run.

Register for HIM in november.


My background in running:


- Started only running about 3 years ago, on and off

- Had to stop due to flat feet and shin splints killing me. Got orthotics sorted and had to basically learn how to run (proper landing, etc, etc)

- Had my first 5k run about 1.5y ago.

- Got enthusiastic, improved my pace, got to the 8k mark, but I started getting sore knees that sidelined me for a while (a few months).


As you can see, I've got a mountain to climb!!


This time, what I'm trying to do different is to lay a foundation with my running. I need to improve my aerobic condition to be able to cope with the HIM, so for the last 5 weeks I have been running between 70-75% of my MHR for 3 times a week, with the weekend trying to do more Ks, but with the same % of heart rate.


So far, I have got to the 7k mark, running 3 times a week, and no issues. Only 7k as I am worried on putting too many Ks so quick (based on previous experience). This week I'll continue with this, but I'm now including hills to gain more strength.


Few questions:


- So far, 5 week of base training. Based on my background, how much further should I continue with base training? Should I get to the 20k mark with this awful pace and then worry about speed?

- Is this the correct approach to take for the run for a novice like me?

- any other advice based on your experience?
Edited by aegcp

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I'm still learning and think I will continue to learn. I'm injury prone. My first 12 months of running I was out with 3 different ailments. I tend to get a little too keen.

 

I've been focusing on a few things, running for me now is about technique/efficiency. strength and effort.

 

Technique - Have someone show you how to run, where/how your knees are dictate your stride length and foot position. These things are quite important.

 

Strength - No matter how strong you think you are get stronger. Works those glutes and the core.

 

Effort - I do not run fast during training. I control my effort by HR and do not exceed thresholds. I believe as an amateur (different for seasoned runners/triathletes) you do not need to run fast to run fast. Doing runs as a % of max hr will build your aerobic capacity whilst keeping injury risk lower.

 

People will likely argue against running slow but if you do it consistently it will work out in the long run.

 

This is just personal experience and may differ for you but you can only learn be doing and taking in advice that is relevant to you.

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What are your goals for the HIM in november? Have you got a target time in mind? What is your swimming & riding like e.g average km/hr over a long ride?

 

I'm a relative noob so all my training & race cockups are still fresh in my mind :)

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Given you have till November I think it is smart that you are building the base! Being your first HIM and your background I agree with prizna that speed isnt the essential element that you need; more so some endurance. Of your 3 run sessions I'd add 1k per week until you get to 12km for 2 of them and for the 3rd till you get to 21k (currently doing 21k per week, next would be 24, 27, 30, 33, 36, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45). Keep it slowish to minimise injury. Once you've achieve 45k per week and you are feeling good and injury free you can then decide if you want to do specific training for the run...taking into account the outcome you're after at your race. Build the engine first before you try and and improve performance. This is a very basic build and one that should be achievable with limitted fuss. Reaching the 21k distance is a milestone only and when reached drop back if you wish. If you have the ability for someone to view your running style it would be an advantage early so that you don't get into bad habits like some of us!

Disclaimer - I'm not a runner but have to run in tri!

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Given you have till November I think it is smart that you are building the base! Being your first HIM and your background I agree with prizna that speed isnt the essential element that you need; more so some endurance. Of your 3 run sessions I'd add 1k per week until you get to 12km for 2 of them and for the 3rd till you get to 21k (currently doing 21k per week, next would be 24, 27, 30, 33, 36, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45). Keep it slowish to minimise injury. Once you've achieve 45k per week and you are feeling good and injury free you can then decide if you want to do specific training for the run...taking into account the outcome you're after at your race. Build the engine first before you try and and improve performance. This is a very basic build and one that should be achievable with limitted fuss. Reaching the 21k distance is a milestone only and when reached drop back if you wish. If you have the ability for someone to view your running style it would be an advantage early so that you don't get into bad habits like some of us!

Disclaimer - I'm not a runner but have to run in tri!

that's about the kms that I do for IM.... but hey, now I'm a lot slower than some, but a few years back my regular 10 + 10 + 21 got me sub 4:00 IM runs

aegcp, from what you've said, you have had some injuries in the past....

also, rarely is there a need to cover the whole race distance in training. it's ok if you do, but not necessary.

My take on it would be to get your runs, as Tomsey recommended up a bit, but I'd be levelling out at 3 runs, maybe 1 x 7-8 km, another at 10 km & the 3rd at up to 15km = 32 km/week

stick with that for a few weeks or more till you get used to that load and then consider what to do next.

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Good advice so far on building at moderate slow pace. Another option given your injury history is add the kms through frequency vs distance i.e. only build to 12-15km on one run but add another 7-8km run each week. 35-40km a week is plenty of load for your 1st 70.3 program - every running km in a single session increases injury risk on a new runners body.

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Thanks everyone, great advice. I will continue building it up slowly (very slow I'd say) and hopefully minimise injury. Will update this thread with any progress.

 

What are your goals for the HIM in november? Have you got a target time in mind? What is your swimming & riding like e.g average km/hr over a long ride?

 

I'm a relative noob so all my training & race cockups are still fresh in my mind :)

 

Hi Zed, really I have not thought of timing. I've got bigger issues at the moment. Can't ride 90k, can't run 21k at the moment. I can swim the distance but pace is slow. Right now I'm doing base training for everything. Once I reach the distance, I'll get a more realistic picture. But for now, I'll be happy finishing in one piece :-)

Edited by aegcp

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Thanks everyone, great advice. I will continue building it up slowly (very slow I'd say) and hopefully minimise injury. Will update this thread with any progress.

 

 

Hi Zed, really I have not thought of timing. I've got bigger issues at the moment. Can't ride 90k, can't run 21k at the moment. I can swim the distance but pace is slow. Right now I'm doing base training for everything. Once I reach the distance, I'll get a more realistic picture. But for now, I'll be happy finishing in one piece :-)

 

Focus on your running. Thats the one leg where when things go pear shaped you can end up losing a lot of time. You don't need to be running 21kms, but you do need to be running longish runs e.g 12, 14, 16kms every now and again, just so you know you can make the distance. Mix up your running, do some intervals stuff e.g 400s, run on grass, do 3 x 5kms etc etc you don't really need a specific, set training program at your level. Do what works for you and your body. If you're getting sore and stiff, switch to intervals for a few days. You've got plenty of time, build slowly. And don't read too much on the internet about training, you'll go mad. You don't have to flog yourself in training or do crazy hours, just be prepared on the day i.e do a few open water races and maybe at least one long brick 90km ride/10km run that way you'll know come race day it's unlikely there will be any suprises. My first 70.3 I totally undertrained and underprepared and really it was a waste of $330 other than to say I'd completed a 70.3 - pfft :sleepy:...... so set yourself some goals, a realistic target time and train accordingly.

Edited by zed

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If you can't ride 90k I'd be focusing on this not your running. If you can't ride 90km easily then no matter how good of a runner you are you want run well on the day. In saying that you have 5 months so no need to 'focus' on any. SBR 3 times a week for the next 5 months and you'll do it easy.

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Focus on your running. Thats the one leg where when things go pear shaped you can end up losing a lot of time. You don't need to be running 21kms, but you do need to be running longish runs e.g 12, 14, 16kms every now and again, just so you know you can make the distance. Mix up your running, do some intervals stuff e.g 400s, run on grass, do 3 x 5kms etc etc you don't really need a specific, set training program at your level. Do what works for you and your body. If you're getting sore and stiff, switch to intervals for a few days. You've got plenty of time, build slowly. And don't read too much on the internet about training, you'll go mad. You don't have to flog yourself in training or do crazy hours, just be prepared on the day i.e do a few open water races and maybe at least one long brick 90km ride/10km run that way you'll know come race day it's unlikely there will be any suprises. My first 70.3 I totally undertrained and underprepared and really it was a waste of $330 other than to say I'd completed a 70.3 - pfft :sleepy:...... so set yourself some goals, a realistic target time and train accordingly.

Zed, following on from your first post "I'm a relative noob so all my training & race cockups are still fresh in my mind :) "

you then follow it up with.

 

3 x 5kms intervals

If you're getting sore and stiff, switch to intervals for a few days

maybe at least one long brick 90km ride/10km run

 

first and only bit of old sage advice I can pass on to any newbie is that the fitter you are on the bike, the better your run will be.

get off the bike in the best condition possible and the run will follow.

get off the bike rooted and there won't be any run to talk about.

 

Interval - forget it till you're a long way past " So far, I have got to the 7k mark

Sore & still - have a break from leg work for a couple of days - have an extra swim, take the GF to dinner but rest the legs

bricks are to get used to transitioning, 90/10 is a Big Days Training. Bricks of 2-4 km off the bike are plenty.

 

any injury will only set you back, stay uninjured till then & you'll be called over the line as a champ.

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Hi all. you may have seen my post about trainerroad and my background. For those who haven't, a bit of my background.
Only 1 sprint tri. Suffered both on the bike and obviously the run.
Register for HIM in november.
My background in running:
- Started only running about 3 years ago, on and off
- Had to stop due to flat feet and shin splints killing me. Got orthotics sorted and had to basically learn how to run (proper landing, etc, etc)
- Had my first 5k run about 1.5y ago.
- Got enthusiastic, improved my pace, got to the 8k mark, but I started getting sore knees that sidelined me for a while (a few months).
As you can see, I've got a mountain to climb!!
This time, what I'm trying to do different is to lay a foundation with my running. I need to improve my aerobic condition to be able to cope with the HIM, so for the last 5 weeks I have been running between 70-75% of my MHR for 3 times a week, with the weekend trying to do more Ks, but with the same % of heart rate.
So far, I have got to the 7k mark, running 3 times a week, and no issues. Only 7k as I am worried on putting too many Ks so quick (based on previous experience). This week I'll continue with this, but I'm now including hills to gain more strength.
Few questions:
- So far, 5 week of base training. Based on my background, how much further should I continue with base training? Should I get to the 20k mark with this awful pace and then worry about speed?
- Is this the correct approach to take for the run for a novice like me?
- any other advice based on your experience?

 

 

I'd forgo the intervals if you are injury prone and just add strides to your runs. Basically 7 -20 seconds of threshold (not sprinting but solid pace),speed repeated 3 -4 times in a session and then work up to 8 or so times. Add them into your long runs as well

You'll get the neuromuscular benefits with less injury risk

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Hi Zed, really I have not thought of timing. I've got bigger issues at the moment. Can't ride 90k, can't run 21k at the moment. I can swim the distance but pace is slow. Right now I'm doing base training for everything. Once I reach the distance, I'll get a more realistic picture. But for now, I'll be happy finishing in one piece :-)

 

Im pretty much in the same boat as you aegcp. So will be keeping an eye on this and taking some ideas.

 

I have entered the Ballarat HIM, never even doing a Tri before and currently have got the swim down (be it in a pool avg 2:00/100m)

 

I have never ran 20+ km, probably looking back never ran 10 in my life. I find pacing myself the hardest, coming from a basketball background, it was all about sprints. Need to get that sorted, because it isn't working.

 

The ride, I am slowly building up. Not trying to rush this either. Just increasing each week, adding in a little bit of strength on the harder gears.

 

I'm hoping just with consistency, teamed with dropping roughly 10kg it will become easier.

 

Best of luck with your training.

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A few thoughts.

 

  • Shoes, have you been properly fitted by a professional i.e. not Foot Locker. How old are your shoes. I don't do more than 600 km in a pair.
  • Do you land on your heel or forefoot, think about your form when running and how you land. A couple of years ago i switched from a heel striker to a forefoot striker and this has improved things, but you have to let your body condition to this.
  • Do you stretch afterwards, if not, you should after every single session as it really helps, I never used to, now i always do. If I don't then I'm sore.
  • Put walking breaks into your run, it'll reduce the fatigue, allow you to run further and help reduce the stress on your body. When you are ready you can drop the walk breaks. I recently ran a half marathon running 4 minutes, walking 30 seconds. The time I ran was faster than what i believe I could have done with continuous running and I did it on only one long training run over 15km plus a variety of 7-10 km runs throughout the week.
  • Leave the speed work until your ready, 8 weeks before your target event is fine. You are far better building your endurance for the 21km off the bike and while speed work will help a little, you still don't have to run that fast off the bike to post a good result. Many beginners won't run the half in much less than 2 hours, this is not moving fast. Its around 5:45 pace.
Edited by Evil Guru

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Hi all. you may have seen my post about trainerroad and my background. For those who haven't, a bit of my background.
Only 1 sprint tri. Suffered both on the bike and obviously the run.
Register for HIM in november.
My background in running:
- Started only running about 3 years ago, on and off
- Had to stop due to flat feet and shin splints killing me. Got orthotics sorted and had to basically learn how to run (proper landing, etc, etc)
- Had my first 5k run about 1.5y ago.
- Got enthusiastic, improved my pace, got to the 8k mark, but I started getting sore knees that sidelined me for a while (a few months).
As you can see, I've got a mountain to climb!!
This time, what I'm trying to do different is to lay a foundation with my running. I need to improve my aerobic condition to be able to cope with the HIM, so for the last 5 weeks I have been running between 70-75% of my MHR for 3 times a week, with the weekend trying to do more Ks, but with the same % of heart rate.
So far, I have got to the 7k mark, running 3 times a week, and no issues. Only 7k as I am worried on putting too many Ks so quick (based on previous experience). This week I'll continue with this, but I'm now including hills to gain more strength.
Few questions:
- So far, 5 week of base training. Based on my background, how much further should I continue with base training? Should I get to the 20k mark with this awful pace and then worry about speed?
- Is this the correct approach to take for the run for a novice like me?
- any other advice based on your experience?

 

 

Noticed that you've got a few similarities to me - I suffered a lot with splints etc. until I got them properly sorted by an Ortho. Also went from not much to HIM in relatively short span, and am slow. Couple of things that might be worth thinking about:

 

1. I never got my stretching, core etc. sorted properly, and ended up paying for it with knee problems. Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because it's going OK, you can cut corners. So when you're thinking about trying to go faster, I'd worry a HEAP more about just making sure you can complete the event in good shape without doing lots of damage. Speed can wait.

 

2. Picking running distances, I had a real epiphany in my second HIM which was actually forehead-slappingly obvious. Whatever run distance you train up to, that's about what you're going to be able to run. At that point, expect to hit a wall. I was doing bricks in training such as a 60km/10km, and sure enough, I felt just fine on the HIM run until the 10km - then kapow.

 

3. But that's actually OK, if you set your expectations reasonably and are willing to do a bit of walk/run. It genuinely works.

 

4. Best point made in this thread from my POV so far is about bike. If completely 90km feels like an achievement, you're in trouble. I approached my first HIM that way, and it was just horrible. You absolutely need to feel that each one of the 3 disciplines, of itself, is no big deal. So again, worry about being comfortable first, worry about speed some other time.

 

Anyways. This is all from a slow person perspective, others may disagree.

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