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Oompa Loompa

Triathlon Australia - whilst nobody reads on here

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Whilst nobody reads on here so nobody will see this. Thank you.

 

You've finally got thee TO's in clean vests.

 

Well done, it's been a year long campaign on here that has borne fruit for the site nobody reads.... Lol

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And the TO's all seemed happy, amazing what clean clothes does to mindset.

Yes

They where all smiley and happy all day

Espually on the PBs :-)

Cheers

Ip

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Now you have sorted the dirty vest issue Oompa, what are you going to campaign next?

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I seriously don't know. There are so many totally meaningless issues in our sport that don't matter, where do you start ? It is really hard picking one out from the rest, I'm in a total quandary.

 

Something will no doubt rise to the surface in due course.

Edited by Oompa Loompa

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Not all of them were happy, there was some tension on the course that I saw.

Funnily though not between TOs and competitors though , but between TOs and other parties.

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Not all of them were happy, there was some tension on the course that I saw.

Funnily though not between TOs and competitors though , but between TOs and other parties.

 

Stop teasing us Roxii and spill.

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Let's just say if a certain TO had their way guys like TGL would have been dq'd.

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Didn't want the shimano guys laying a finger on anyone's bike.

Have they got a "Neutral Service" contract with some-one else? Or do they expect an Active Fee for any assistance they may have given?

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Isn't assistance from them within the rules?

I always thought this was ok...

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Didn't want the shimano guys laying a finger on anyone's bike.

Why have them if you can be a DQ for using them?

 

Sounds like the TO was a loser.

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I'm not sure but I think they are talking about non-official Shimano guys. Like honorary members by virtue of owning some Shimano gear.

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Didn't want the shimano guys laying a finger on anyone's bike.

It is amazing the difference in TOs that exists out there (and in saying this I am fully aware that more than one Trannie was TOing on the day).

 

Some TOs are common sense personified and dressed in high vis clothing. For them I have nothing but praise and gratitude as they carry out a thankless task in a way that helps us competitors have a great race.

 

But seriously, one or two others need to give it away.

 

As Tortoise mentioned, one TO gave out 5 times as many penalties as anyone else and on a day where there was less drafting than any other IM that I have EVER seen!!

 

I understand rules, I come across them occasionally in my day job.

 

But in general rules should be interpreted in such a way that prevents the evil the rules were designed to address.

 

Some 15 hour guy getting handed a jumper to ward off hypothermia as the temperature plummeted after dark instead of taking a space blanket from the ambos - is this really a terrible thing for our sport? Should some TO have given him a DQ?

 

Really glad that the vast majority of TOs enjoyed a good working relationship with competitors.

 

On a personal note, many thanks to both Royds (he knows why!) and an unknown TO who sat on the motorbike with me after I had been riding for 7 plus hours and was trying to make sure I was ok and would finish before the bike cut off. Very grateful to him indeed.

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I'm not sure but I think they are talking about non-official Shimano guys. Like honorary members by virtue of owning some Shimano gear.

 

 

Im talking about "very official" Shimano guys.

 

Also Hymies wife Stacey being not allowed to finish the last 15k of bike leg due to a broken seat.

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Also Hymies wife Stacey being not allowed to finish the last 15k of bike leg due to a broken seat.

 

Hold the fark on.

 

A TO stopped her from finishing? Please say I read that wrong.

 

If she wanted to walk her bike the 15k she can.

 

I've seen it before at Forster and on the Kona video where some guy carried his bike a long way after being hit by a motorbike or something like that

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I heard a guy got a yellow for pouring drink over himself as the TO thought he was doing a pee.

 

He wasn't doing a pee and sadly for him he actually poured sports drink on himself. haha

 

It was a second yellow and therefore a RED.

 

I know he was going to appeal the decision but didn't hear the outcome.

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I may have heard wrong but Im pretty sure thats how Hymie told me the story.

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Jeez - hope its not true - managing to ride the last 15km with a buggered seat post should get you a time reduction :sleepy::sleepy:

 

Been waiting a long time for the next TO course here in Melbourne - not surprised there is a shortage.

Edited by symo

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Im talking about "very official" Shimano guys.

 

Also Hymies wife Stacey being not allowed to finish the last 15k of bike leg due to a broken seat.

 

WTF???

 

TO with Napoleon syndrome?

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there should be a review of TO's.. this is disgraceful

 

I am a very green TO, having got my accreditation last year and officiating at 2 events so far.. but I have umpired netball for over 14 years and hold a national badge.

 

At Club Champs in Forster, I was unlucky enough to suffer my first ever flat tyre. I was going up a hill not far into the bike leg, heard a strange noise, couldn't tell whether the tyre was flat or not. Kept going up the hill, got to the top, pulled over to survey the damage. Opened up my brand new, unused tool kit, pulled out my spare, my levers and my pump.. next thing one of the marshalls was next to me. I must say, this marshall is a person of high regard and esteem in our Club, and offered me a hand. I declined, knowing that should I be passed by a TO I would be DQ'd for outside assistance. I told him I would nut it out myself, He hung around anyway to offer moral support.

 

Long story short, I ended up with a 2nd flat, so out came all the gear again, by this stage I was dead last, everyone in my wave had gone past me (most on their second lap) and we were the last wave. Got the tyre fixed, and headed off, to be informed not 5 minutes later that because of the time I had spent changing tubes, I was not allowed to complete the second lap due to time constraints (which would not have happened if I'd been in an earlier wave...)

 

So I took the bike back into transition, and went out for the first lap of the run. When I came back in for the 4km turnaround, a bunch of my Club mates were waiting for me, one asked me if I wanted her to join me. Again, knowing the rules, I said no, because no pacers are allowed. She said she would just walk with me to keep me company (long lonely run over that thar bridge) and I was coming absolutely dead walloping last anyway so what harm would it do? Sometimes the rules need to be bent. I see that now.

 

Unfortunately, just like some police, some TO's are overzealous to, for want of a better term, prosecute. It's a power game. As I have umpired netball so long, you learn what you need to be tough on, and what you let go. I love the advantage rule in netball. If it hasn't impeded play, and it doesn't disadvantage the team being impacted on, then you just play on, but let the player responsible know that you saw what they did.

 

Does it benefit me, either as a TO or a netball umpire, to ruin your day? No. It doesn't. We need to keep a level and fair playing ground, but sometimes there has to be some give and take, and a little bit of discretion shown by the officials.

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there should be a review of TO's.. this is disgraceful

You know what to do then son... book in for the next Level 1 TO course, coming to a town near you!! Edited by KKB

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Isn't assistance from them within the rules?

As I understand it, if you have an issue with your bike, the Shimano guys can offer you any equipment that may resolve the issue, BUT you do it yourself, otherwise it's outside assistance.

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KKB that doesn't work.

 

I did exactly that about 6 years ago.

 

There are just as many shit TOs now as there was there.

 

They need to improve the program. Re training and review.

 

It would take a paid position and that's not going to happen.

 

A new TO can get on a Moto with a yellow card and do it perfect or completely wrong.

 

There is no review or monitoring.

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why TGL needed his bike shoes at the swim start I will never know..... (People need to know TGL - all part of your growth!)

I guess it was his pre race milkshake starting to froth up?

 

I had a fun day out there mostly fixing bikes and trying to keep warm.

 

I was feeling the love all day. Great event and some amazing results.

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KKB that doesn't work.

 

I did exactly that about 6 years ago.

 

There are just as many shit TOs now as there was there.

 

They need to improve the program. Re training and review.

 

It would take a paid position and that's not going to happen.

 

A new TO can get on a Moto with a yellow card and do it perfect or completely wrong.

 

There is no review or monitoring.

All I'm trying to say is that if a few more athletes had a go at volunteering (TO'ing), they might understand the difficulties of the job. At least view it from the other side to give a bit of an insight instead of jumping on the bandwagon with the rest of the 'keyboard vigilantes' when issues like this arise.

I liken it to the 'car drivers v cyclists' crap that we've got going on in this forward thinking country of ours.

If you got non-cycling motorists to ride a bike for a week, you might get a little less agro on the roads. Might.

 

But hey, if you've parted with 800+ for a day out, and things don't go your way. C'est la vie....

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why TGL needed his bike shoes at the swim start I will never know..... (People need to know TGL - all part of your growth!)

.

Doesn't everyone wear their bike shoes in the swim?

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Again, knowing the rules, I said no, because no pacers are allowed. She said she would just walk with me to keep me company (long lonely run over that thar bridge) and I was coming absolutely dead walloping last anyway so what harm would it do? Sometimes the rules need to be bent. I see that now.

 

Unfortunately, just like some police, some TO's are overzealous to, for want of a better term, prosecute. It's a power game. As I have umpired netball so long, you learn what you need to be tough on, and what you let go. I love the advantage rule in netball. If it hasn't impeded play, and it doesn't disadvantage the team being impacted on, then you just play on, but let the player responsible know that you saw what they did.

 

Does it benefit me, either as a TO or a netball umpire, to ruin your day? No. It doesn't. We need to keep a level and fair playing ground, but sometimes there has to be some give and take, and a little bit of discretion shown by the officials.

Discretion. Great idea. And if I recall correctly, was the word used by the RD at the athlete briefing to describe how he wanted athletes to address questions of going to the toilet.

 

Common sense can earn you bucket loads of respect. Loved the approach taken by the TOs who had to see my sorry arse on Sunday. But disappointed to hear of the approach taken re wife of Hymie.

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Bugger me TGL, your mental disintegration continues to amaze me. You need to get onto sudoku, crosswords or lumosity or start entering single sport events.

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Bugger me TGL, your mental disintegration continues to amaze me. You need to get onto sudoku, crosswords or lumosity or start entering single sport events.

No doubt my last 4 IMs have been pretty disastrous!!

 

Does sudoku have some sort of Trannies equivalent?

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I received a red card on the bike. I don't think the TO had a clue for the following reasons:

a) correct me if wrong but I got a red card straight up. I thought yellow cards were given.

B) the reason I was penalized was because a guy up ahead was penalized for taking too long to pass someone else..... As they sat ahead of me arguing/discussing the point (and he wasn't drafting), they were a foot apart and I was closing in. I would not have been able to get a Sao biscuit between them so I went inside of them. A few seconds later...... 1168 I am giving you a red card....... For what? For illegal passing on the inside!!!!! Sorry but I was giving you and the person you were debating drafting rules with common courtesy. She said doesn't matter you broke the rules and made an illegal pass. You now need to see the race referee after the race. I did that and he had no record of it.

 

Should I have yelled out ..... Get the phuck out of my way???? I am sure that wouldn't have go down to well!

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I received a red card on the bike. I don't think the TO had a clue for the following reasons:

a) correct me if wrong but I got a red card straight up. I thought yellow cards were given.

B) the reason I was penalized was because a guy up ahead was penalized for taking too long to pass someone else..... As they sat ahead of me arguing/discussing the point (and he wasn't drafting), they were a foot apart and I was closing in. I would not have been able to get a Sao biscuit between them so I went inside of them. A few seconds later...... 1168 I am giving you a red card....... For what? For illegal passing on the inside!!!!! Sorry but I was giving you and the person you were debating drafting rules with common courtesy. She said doesn't matter you broke the rules and made an illegal pass. You now need to see the race referee after the race. I did that and he had no record of it.

Should I have yelled out ..... Get the phuck out of my way???? I am sure that wouldn't have go down to well!

Mate, that is a disgrace, did you appeal - ie no record of the card or of the detail . I know the race is over but give Phil Dally a ring at TriNSW, he is a good bloke and will be horrified at that. Please give the feedback to them (as nobody reads on here). Edited by Oompa Loompa

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Unless they were told a pass on the inside is a red I would have thought it was a yellow. You can get a straight up red, years ago I was told to give a red to anyone relieving themselves by the road on the bike course.

 

If you finished then saw the referee and they had either no record of the red card, or a record that the card was awarded but no reason why, then I couldn't see how any dq could be upheld. If it was under those circumstances, then bugger then, get your result reinstated.

 

Then while at it, report the incident yourself to TA. Include exactly what happened, exactly what you were told, and exactly where it happened. There may be a record of which TO was covering that part of the course. Maybe they were the overzealous one, and it could help with identifying a problem if there is one.

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If you don't already have a copy, please download a copy of the TA RCR. I have just had a quick look (I did have the RCR on my mobile but some friendly tech gremlins decided to delete all my files and contacts a few weekends back) and it does indeed appear that an illegal pass would attract a YELLOW card, with the relevant time penalty being incurred in the penalty box. It does help, whether as a TO or as a competitor, to refresh one's mind on the rules every so often.

 

As a netball umpire, I have to resit the theory section of my exam every 6 years to maintain my accreditation. I had to resit the exam this year, back in March... when I was going through the rule book before the exam, I was amazed at some of the calls we had all been taught to make which just weren't accurate anymore, according to the rules. We are also expected to know about the equipment (the required size of the lettering on the patches, for example) and the officials who are officiating the game (primary carers, timekeepers, scorers, managers, coaches etc etc etc). Pass marks vary depending on the badge you hold, my pass mark was 70% and I was pleased that I got 98%, second highest mark in the association. I still want to know what I got wrong, but they won't tell me...

 

As to the broken seat post, as everyone has commented previously, she should have been allowed to finish, even if it meant walking out the 15km (which personally I would have done too in that situation) - all she needs to do is walk out the 15km, safely (ie not endangering herself or other competitors), whilst conveying all parts of her bike. I would be thoroughly pissed off it that happened to me.

 

3.2 A competitor is not permitted to make any forward progress without the bicycle and all of its component parts.

 

And for the illegal pass, I would probably have done the same thing as an official, however, the official should have been more mindful of overtaking traffic and should have completed negotiations with the other competitor in a more appropriate manner. I would have yelled out passing on the right, or similar, and then awaited them moving, rather than take the dangerous option of illegally passing on the left. There is a reason why it is illegal. That said, it should have been a yellow, not a straight out red, and should have been done properly,

 

For next time:

 

7.4 Protest Against Another Competitor or an Official

A protest against the actions of another competitor or official carried out before, during or after the race must be made in writing to the Race Referee within 30 minutes of the protesting competitor's finish time. Such a protest may be submitted only if the protesting competitor claims that the action of the alleged offender was detrimental to the performance of the protester.

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As they sat ahead of me arguing/discussing the point (and he wasn't drafting), they were a foot apart and I was closing in. I would not have been able to get a Sao biscuit between them so I went inside of them

 

So I've just reread what you said, I would say that it would have been much better to have gone to the right of the motorcycle, if the motorcycle was that close to the person being "pinged". When I was out on the motorcycle at Nepean (just getting a feel for being on the motorbike) and again at Callala, if the motorcycle driver noticed a faster cyclist passing, he would always move over and allow them to pass him. The TO's job is to watch the cyclists and watch for infringements on the rules, the motorcyclist is supposed to drive in a manner safe, but is also being directed by the TO (if they want them to pull over closer to a cyclist to have a discussion, or hang back to watch a pack and see what happens etc.)

 

Next time, go up the right of the motorcyclist. The rider will know you are there, and it's not illegal to pass the motorbike on the right. It is to pass both on the left :(

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I would have expected that all rules would have been covered in the briefing too. If passing left was to be a red then it should have been mentioned in there. I'm sure I've read in briefings before that you should give way to those 'workers' on the course. I would say the correct response at the time is to pass no one and just wait. Sounds sucky, but would be the 'safer' option, even if not preferred.

 

Of course we can still ponder what happened to IF after the race, but until he tells us (what it meant when the rr said he had no record) we are only guessing. If he was shown a red and it wasn't recorded, then I'd make sure TA know. I know a red means you continue and see the rr afterwards, but when I did the TO course we were told that while you can appeal the red, it is pretty much gonna mean a dq. I'm sure there are people out there that would give up after that.

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I received a red card on the bike. I don't think the TO had a clue for the following reasons:

a) correct me if wrong but I got a red card straight up. I thought yellow cards were given.

B) the reason I was penalized was because a guy up ahead was penalized for taking too long to pass someone else..... As they sat ahead of me arguing/discussing the point (and he wasn't drafting), they were a foot apart and I was closing in. I would not have been able to get a Sao biscuit between them so I went inside of them. A few seconds later...... 1168 I am giving you a red card....... For what? For illegal passing on the inside!!!!! Sorry but I was giving you and the person you were debating drafting rules with common courtesy. She said doesn't matter you broke the rules and made an illegal pass. You now need to see the race referee after the race. I did that and he had no record of it.

 

Should I have yelled out ..... Get the phuck out of my way???? I am sure that wouldn't have go down to well!

 

I was at the finish line catching when Foz came up trying to find the Race Referee. I know he was looking for the RR at least 30 mins before as I got word of it. He wasn't jumping up and down or cursing but quite calm. I couldn't find a Tech Official or RR but spoke with Bagsy at the finish line. He directed Foz up to the Race Centre.

 

Foz, let me know if you need any confirmation from myself or Bagsy regarding the timing of a protest (i.e. if they say you were too late to protest).

 

Mick

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Just to clarify the way I read it Foz didn't get dq'd did he as he said the referee had no record of the offence.

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That's what I was thinking, just wanted clarification. I'd love to know what the RR said when he was told he was red carded yet there was no record of it? Maybe the TO hadn't submitted their reported infractions yet?

 

Did the TO go through the whole process of calling out his number, saying he was receiving a red card and stating exactly what it was for and that he should contact the RR afterwards to confirm/complain/protest etc?

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Similar thing happened at Busso to me. Was passing on the right and caught a competitor riding abreast of another whilst talking with TO on the bike (so 3 abreast). Couldn't pass the mike on the right without crossing the Centre line so ended up catching the middle bike then had to sit up and gesture at which point the TO told the rider to move over.

 

If they hadn't done so I could have been pinged for drafting I guess as I wouldn't have completed the pass.

 

I suppose this was the sensible approach but dealing with the human element always leaves room for issues.

 

Additionally, in relation to passing on the left, pretty sure this doesn't apply if it's too avoid an accident. Could argue that avoiding a motorbike would have been doing this very thing

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End of the day, the only one who can finish your race is the RR. In my experience there are very no 'cowboys' that make it to the level 2 to be able to perform the roles of RR. With the shortage of TOs there is no formal process to my knowledge to stop people becoming TOs, however you generally get invited to do the level 2 and beyond course which keeps those who don't get it out of these roles.

 

In the scenario of the above, I would have had the mechanic fix the bike / passed on the left etc, accepted the penalty, turned up at the sin bin and done the time, then seen the RR at the end of the race. Do not let someone on a powertrip (and they do exist) end your day when they have no right to do so, they can only show you a red card at worse which effectively gives you a meeting with the RR at the end of the race, nothing more at that stage.

 

Likely outcome is the RR is not going to disqualify you without a just cause. You also get the chance to discuss with them in most cases before a DQ is posted.

 

If you don't turn up for the penalty, you will likely get DQ for that alone, so ensure you do it, use the time to freshen the legs for the rest of the bike / run etc and then use the motivation to get the run done.

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Always pass on the outside if it's safe to do so. However, crossing the centre line into on coming riders or other traffic will usually result in a red card and a little chat with the RR at the end of the day.

 

Passing on the inside is usually a yellow depending on the circumstances. If it is deemed to be dangerous it can attract a red card.

Edited by Royds

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Just to clarify the way I read it Foz didn't get dq'd did he as he said the referee had no record of the offence.

To clarify all;

- no DQ registered. As Flanman said, he assisted very quickly and spoke to Ken B who said go up to Rydges 1st floor to race office and they will page the race referee which they did. In the end they just said.... No record of it so don't worry.

- I didn't see Flanman for a good 45mins after I finished as I hot food and fluid and a massage and then I remembered.... Must see race referee.... Whoops.

- there was no room to go past on the outside of the motorbike........ But then again I could have approached them screaming and yelling abuse...... I.e. Get the phuck out of my way and being an arrogant twat...... But not my style. As stated.... Took the respectful path to my own detriment. All good and I didn't have any fear of being DQed. Beside I had my medal.... That's all that counted!

 

Side note: all in all, I thought the TO's were mostly good...... Just a few silly calls.

Edited by IronmanFoz

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I received a red card on the bike. I don't think the TO had a clue for the following reasons:

a) correct me if wrong but I got a red card straight up. I thought yellow cards were given.

B) the reason I was penalized was because a guy up ahead was penalized for taking too long to pass someone else..... As they sat ahead of me arguing/discussing the point (and he wasn't drafting), they were a foot apart and I was closing in. I would not have been able to get a Sao biscuit between them so I went inside of them. A few seconds later...... 1168 I am giving you a red card....... For what? For illegal passing on the inside!!!!! Sorry but I was giving you and the person you were debating drafting rules with common courtesy. She said doesn't matter you broke the rules and made an illegal pass. You now need to see the race referee after the race. I did that and he had no record of it.

 

Should I have yelled out ..... Get the phuck out of my way???? I am sure that wouldn't have go down to well!

I saw that incident take place. The guy getting spoken to appeared to slow down so much, that our 'non drafting bunch' caught up very quickly and even i was considering how to get through, without going between or going acrosss the centre line.

When you went through i thought you did it fine...and safely.

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