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Low Carb Diets

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Some new research, on mice, indicates that while a low carb diet will allow you to lose weight and increase muscle mass it will also result in more disease and a shorter life span.

 

Food for thought (excuse the pun)

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-05/low-carb-diet-may-shorten-your-life-study-finds/5299284

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So many problems with that article, I wouldn't put much credence in it. I'd look at the study itself to judge the quality. Sentences like:

 

"If you're interested in a longer life span and late-life health, then a diet that is low in protein, high in carbohydrate and low in fat is preferable," he said.

"You can eat as much of that as you like.

"You don't have to be hungry, you don't have to reduce your calorie intake, you can just let your body decide what the right amount of food is."

 

Hmmmm. Anything that makes broad sweeping statements like that is obviously ignoring the current crop of health issues from people eating as much as they want. I'm not dissing the study - just the simplification and paraphrasing of it in this article. I'd go to the source.

(which I haven't done yet)

 

ETA:

 

especially details like what carbs, what protein, and the fat content. Paleo and Atkins don't necessarily claim a high protein - more along the lines of replacing carbs with good fats - not just protein. And mice are different to humans. Different digestive tract and evolved to eat different things than humans (I think).

Edited by The Turtle

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Here's a pretty good summary which is very worthwhile reading. John Orchard is a well respected Sports Doc and researcher, is on the editorial board of one of the best Sports Med journals in the world and has written opinion pieces over the last decade where he has a swing at the medical and sports industry. In summary, smart guy, doesn't seem to have commercial ties to anything or anyone related to this topic.

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Also interesting the mice stopped eating on proteins, but kept on eating with carbs and got fatter. I don't know how they then transferred that to recommending eating as much as you want with reduced fat content?

 

These researches and dietitians seem to just push fat off in a corner and ignore it as much as possible. They talk about protein and carbs loud and proud and mumble the word fat out of the side of the mouth like it was a embarrassing cousin they don't want to acknowledge even exists.

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It's also been known for a while that the lean muscle of an animal is the least nutritious part and was least valued by our ancestors and even carnivores today. Watch a bear catch a salmon swimming upstream and it'll often eat the head and leav big chunks of the "sashimi".

 

An our ancestors would always favour the organ meat, bone marrow and fat and only eat the lean muscle if they had to. Funny how things have changed.

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Here's a pretty good summary which is very worthwhile reading. John Orchard is a well respected Sports Doc and researcher, is on the editorial board of one of the best Sports Med journals in the world and has written opinion pieces over the last decade where he has a swing at the medical and sports industry. In summary, smart guy, doesn't seem to have commercial ties to anything or anyone related to this topic.

 

Thanks, fantastic, well balanced article.

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First article ... Good luck following that advice - especially when your organs start to resist the resultant, chronically high insulin levels ... oh, but your fat cells won't, so you'll still have a healthy appetite.

Even less credibility with the link "take a cold shower to lose weight", another BS article stemming from some mouse research.

 

2nd article, no drama

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Here's a pretty good summary which is very worthwhile reading. John Orchard is a well respected Sports Doc and researcher, is on the editorial board of one of the best Sports Med journals in the world and has written opinion pieces over the last decade where he has a swing at the medical and sports industry. In summary, smart guy, doesn't seem to have commercial ties to anything or anyone related to this topic.

Well balanced article. Edited by Kamahl

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Here's a pretty good summary which is very worthwhile reading. John Orchard is a well respected Sports Doc and researcher, is on the editorial board of one of the best Sports Med journals in the world and has written opinion pieces over the last decade where he has a swing at the medical and sports industry. In summary, smart guy, doesn't seem to have commercial ties to anything or anyone related to this topic.

Thanks for that. A well balanced article.

 

For a better written review of the research that I originally posted see:

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet-and-fitness/highprotein-diet-a-factor-in-shorter-life-20140304-3456a.html

 

It seems that the "best" diet is not as simple as HFLC or low fat. It is much more complicated than that.

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While Dr Orchard may be a well respected sports physician, his article is based on opinion rather than scientific analysis.

 

However, the article in the original post was the result of a three year scientific study.

 

Believe what you like because everyone has an opinion on diet.

Edited by Jon

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so what is the definition of a shortened life span.

 

 

I've have been eating minimal carbs now for 2 years, lost 32 Kgs along the way and am 55...is the clock ticking. If so I'm off to maccas instead of sumo salad for lunch!

 

really, there's so much information/mis information on this stuff does any one really know

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Why would you bother being a scientist when every second punter thinks they know more than you?

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Because punters have the ability to read and interpret all the research, and apply it to real life, without being constrained to the lifespan of a mouse.

 

Best book I've read on this stuff was by Gary Taubes (Good Calories Bad Calories) because he dissected almost every bit of relevant research from the last hundred years. From memory the bibliography was over 150 pages long.

 

And he ain't no lab researcher, just a science journalist

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Here's a pretty good summary which is very worthwhile reading. John Orchard is a well respected Sports Doc and researcher, is on the editorial board of one of the best Sports Med journals in the world and has written opinion pieces over the last decade where he has a swing at the medical and sports industry. In summary, smart guy, doesn't seem to have commercial ties to anything or anyone related to this topic.

Firstly he refers to a Paleo diet potentially introducing Trans -fats ?? I have never seen any Paleo site or book refer to that as being a good thing- quite the opposite.

Also when Paleo refers to low carbs it refers to reducing refined carbs such as bread, pasta etc and reducing some fruits. I'm sure we'd all agree that vegetables are predominately carb based and contain fibre, vitamins and macronutrients and Paleo encourages people to consume large quantities of these.

It seems people tend to to confuse Paloe style of eating with the Atkins diet or something similar which is not helpful.

I work in the pharmaceutical industry and guarantee that if we extrapolated data gained from mouse studies to human longevity we'd be drawing a pretty long bow and wouldn't even get a look in in regards to regulatory bodies registering any of our products

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Why would you bother being a scientist when every second punter thinks they know more than you?

Exactly.

High protein diet leading a shorter lifespan isnt all that surprising really.

Google protein and IGF-1.

 

There are ways around that issue though (intermittent fasting works well in dropping IGF-1 levels).

But to say eating high carb and eating as many calories as you like is the way to go isnt all that smart.

Plenty of studies showing restricted calorie intake increases lifespan.

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Gather round kiddies,

 

If you die early, you are dead, you won't notice.

 

Lamb chops are sensational. So is bacon, so are Oysters.

 

What about yesterday's lunch, pork belly and spuds, but wait for it, the spuds had been cooked in the pork belly fat - F'in A, if you havnt eaten it, wether carb free or not, indulge.

 

If it doesn't effect others like say, smoking, live how you want, eat what you want.

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While Dr Orchard may be a well respected sports physician, his article is based on opinion rather than scientific analysis.

 

However, the article in the original post was the result of a three year scientific study.

 

Believe what you like because everyone has an opinion on diet.

 

What's your opinion Jon?

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Firstly he refers to a Paleo diet potentially introducing Trans -fats ??

 

No he doesn't. He has a shot at the "Smash the fat" "all fats are good for ya" twisters of Paleo/Atkins/LCHF whatever.

 

It is at this point that following the Paleo trend to the cult end of the spectrum becomes very dangerous. The hypothesis that a high fat low carb diet across the board is a healthier way of lowering CVD risk than statins is – at best – an unproven hypothesis and possibly has already proven as false.

However you can’t get into debates on this topic without getting dragged down into specifics of what each individual Paleo disciple believes. Of course, if you substitute sugar (a carb) for olive oil (a fat) you are probably going to get generally healthier outcomes.

If on the other hand you substitute brown rice (a carb) for something containing trans fats (a fat) then you are probably going to get generally less healthy outcomes.

You can go around and around in circles with examples and counter-examples along these lines. If an individual wants to swear that they have turned their life around by “going Paleo” and by this they mean reducing their intake of processed carbs, drinking less alcohol, exercising more, sleeping regular hours and giving up social drugs, then I will take my hat off them for turning their life around but would also point out that there is nothing that they have done that a mainstream (non-Paleo) nutritionist wouldn’t have recommended to them in a consult.

 

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Fark this is all too confusing, I'm off to the local retirement village. I'll find some healthy old people and ask them what they've eaten during their life. That'll do me.

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It's not complicated at all. Just eat real food.

 

I reckon this sums it all up. Real food in moderation and how can you go wrong. My wife once said " life's to short for shit food"

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More research warning against too much eggs and dairy. Only posting as it appears to be independent yet supporting of the original article... As bad as smoking eh?

 

"People need to switch to a diet where only around nine or ten percent of their calories come from protein, and the ideal sources are plant-based," Longo told the Guardian. "We are not saying go and do some crazy diet we came up with. If we are wrong, there is no harm done, but if we are right you are looking at an incredible effect that in general is about as bad as smoking."

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I think this says it all.......

 

"I would urge general caution over observational studies, and particularly when looking at diet, given the difficulties of disentangling one nutrient or dietary component from another. You can get an association that might have some causal linkage or might not," said Peter Emery, head of nutrition and dietetics at King's College London.

 

Still no mention of what carbs or protein, and then when the protein was dropped, what it was replaced with.

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More research warning against too much eggs and dairy. Only posting as it appears to be independent yet supporting of the original article... As bad as smoking eh?

 

 

The smoker thinks: 'why bother quitting smoking if my cheese and ham sandwich is just as bad for me?'"

 

Classic stuff.

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Still no mention of what carbs or protein, and then when the protein was dropped, what it was replaced with.

 

Maybe just the energy of the Universe...

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What's your opinion Jon?

 

Parky - somewhat surprised that you, as a medically trained person would be interested in my take on diet. Unless you are just setting me up for the sucker punch. FWIW my diet has not changed in decades and continues to serve me well, especially as I train on most days of the year.

 

I think that each person's needs vary and it is important to become well read on the various theories and studies of healthy diets. Adopt and modify your own diet according to your needs and keep an open mind. I would never try to impose my diet on someone else but would always happy to discuss what works for me.

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That sounds like a pretty reasonable approach.

 

As a 'medically trained person" I would be like most trained in the last 30 years and telling people to eat mainly grain based carbohydrates, vegetables and fruit , moderate to small amount of protein and very small amount of fat and sugar. Which left me 10kg overweight and constantly hungry.

 

John Orchard's opinion would be coming from a pretty decent amount of exposure to high level, peer-reviewed literature. He is a career bean-pole, has run marathons, worked in multi-disciplinary clinics and elite sports and is on the editorial board of one of the most esteemed Sports med journals world-wide. His opinion pieces over the last decade tell me he is not beholden to big pharma, the medical hierarchy or vested interests. He moves with the crowd and is colleagues with names that includes Brukner, Noakes, etc etc. His opinion holds more credence with me because of all of these facts. He hasn't plucked his opinion out of one book selling "the" diet or from a former panel beater turned Cross-Fit instructor or someone on a forum making claims based on a cherry-picked 3 year study quoted in a tabloid telling us about how you will meet your demise in 40 years time.

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Maybe just the energy of the Universe...

 

ah, a good ol dose of moon dust eh? Yummo! Slightly lower calories than fairy dust, but no where near as fun :flowerface:

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Why would you bother being a scientist when every second punter thinks they know more than you?

Your statement in itself is a good one. The problem is that nowadays most scientist that are conducting studies are doing so on the basis of focused based research rather than discovery based research.

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Parky you say you ate the traditional and prescribed diet and were 15 kilos overweight...but I know you have said in the past you have smashed the cream buns and pastries - and your daily training was sporadic. Do you think there are more mitigating circumstances to your weight gain than just the configuration of carbs proteins and fats?

 

I saw you last weekend and I can't recall you looking happier or healthier. Is your new eating plan also more lifestyle disciplined than previously?

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Parky you say you ate the traditional and prescribed diet and were 15 kilos overweight...but I know you have said in the past you have smashed the cream buns and pastries - and your daily training was sporadic. Do you think there are more mitigating circumstances to your weight gain than just the configuration of carbs proteins and fats?

 

I saw you last weekend and I can't recall you looking happier or healthier. Is your new eating plan also more lifestyle disciplined than previously?

 

Parky looks great and seems happy but i think the fact his work hours have returned to normal would be helping a lot - he was doing bullish!t longs hours there for a while. He seems in a good place and I'm sure feeling better makes him happier.

 

The consequence of LCHF trends is less sugar and refined carbs and that results in weight loss and better general health. I eat way more fat than I did and way less REFINED carbs but I don't think it's a particularly low carb diet. I eat heaps of veggies, salads and fruit; meat, chicken and fish. Weight has stabilised and I generally feel good. My new mantra is avoid 'Low fat, 'Lite' and anything sugary - I think Parky would be similar.

 

As I see it, the problem with the 'traditional prescribed diets' are they have lots of hidden sugars, high amounts of refined carbs, and often leave you feeling hungry. Some people will do OK on it, many won't - I don't think there's a blanket solution that works for everyone.

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