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Alex Simmons

Aerodynamics testing & optimisation: Bookings open.

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Posted with permission of forum owner.

 

It’s ready.

 

I'm now accepting bookings for aerodynamics testing and optimisation.

 

Initial dates (and approximate times) available are:

 

Fri, 28 February 2014 (10am-12/2pm)

Sat, 8 March 2014 (1-3/5 PM)

Sat, 15 March 2014 (1-3/5 PM)

Wed, 26 March 2014 (10am-12/2pm)

Sat, 29 March 2014 (1-3/5 PM)

 

Venue: Dunc Gray Velodrome, Bass Hill, Sydney.

 

Testing can be performed on road and TT bikes, triathlon bikes and track bikes, as well as any special equipment options (e.g. helmets, wheels, tri / skin suits, bidon placement) you bring along. Don't worry if you are new to riding on the track. If you are, I can organise some pre-testing orientation time.

 

Places are limited, so book early and we'll help you find some precious speed, and have some fun as well.

 

 

Included are:

 

- 2-hours of exclusive track availability per session (no one else is on track while you are)

 

- Alphamantis real time aerodynamics technology, as used by AIS / Cycling Australia (exclusively for AIS athletes only)

 

- For riders requiring bikes meet UCI set up regulations (new rules from 1 January 2014), we can validate compliance with bike test jig.

 

- Typically riders should have a suitable ANT+ power meter* and ANT+ speed sensor fitted to their bike, however if you don’t have a meter, I will organise a Powertap wheel for you to use during testing (may be a small additional fee).

 

- Prior agreed testing priorities, e.g. positional changes, equipment options (rider provided equipment) and recommendations for testing based on initial set up as presented.

 

- Approximately 12 runs per rider are tested, the exact number depends on complexity of set-up changes. If your bike is difficult to adjust, it takes longer, whereas e.g. helmet testing is much quicker.

 

- Client report

> CdA results for each set-up

> Impacts on speed and time savings for target events

> Equivalent improvement in power (wattage) terms

> Recommendations on other improvement options

 

 

Special introductory pricing (for the above dates only):

 

As a special deal, I'm offering a "Transitions Group" introductory offer for a group of riders, where the group is coordinated by a Transitions member.

 

Transitions Group: $320 per rider. Minimum of 4 riders.

 

Else, introductory pricing is as follows:

Solo: $450

Joint: $350 per rider (separate invoices, you are paired with another for the session)

Group: $335 per rider (single invoice for a group of 2 or more)

 

Joint or Group testing means two riders alternate test runs on the track. While one is on track performing an aero test run, the other is having changes made to their set up in preparation for their next test run.

 

Booking requests can be made via this web form:

https://podio.com/webforms/7001269/538764

 

Happy to answer questions.

 

 

Also, and separately for your information, Retul University are advertising a 2-day "Positioned for Speed course" in Melbourne 18-19 March 2014, in the week before the IM, a part of which includes aero testing session at DISC velodrome (they've asked me to run that part of the course). This is a great opportunity, especially for bike fitters and coaches to really get their heads around the ins and outs of aerodynamics for performance. This same course was run in Los Angeles recently, for those that may have seen discussion on it.

 

https://www.retul.com/retul-university/2014-course-offerings/continuing-education-courses/

Note: it might be mistakenly listed as being under their Brisbane courses, but that will be corrected to be listed under Melbourne courses.

 

 

Cheers

Alex

 

 

* suitable meters include ANT+ versions of: SRM; Quarq; Powertap; Garmin Vector; Power2Max. Meters should be known to be reliable and not suffer from undue torque zero drift.

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Someone in Perth doing same for a lot more dosh

 

Not quite apples and oranges.

 

IIRC they incorporate a Retul fit prior to aero testing session, plus my pricing is introductory special offer until end-March. The aero testing technology is the same (I installed it and trained them). Exclusive track access costs vary a lot as well, plus technology licence costs, and each market is different too. Our UK price is different as well.

 

People are now testing over there, my setting up Perth is prime reason why I've been delayed in going live here.

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Alex I see you have a transitions group offer. If there are 4 people vs 2 do you think the number of runs will be reduced? The advantage of a group run is that it might be easier to swap equipment such as helmets. But if the runs are reduced then it doesn't make a lot of sense.

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Alex how would pricing work if I wanted you to look at my road and Tt position ? Would it be 2 separate sessions or could it be done in the one session ?

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Alex I see you have a transitions group offer. If there are 4 people vs 2 do you think the number of runs will be reduced? The advantage of a group run is that it might be easier to swap equipment such as helmets. But if the runs are reduced then it doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

With 4 people, it would be 2 x 2-hour sessions back to back. Riders would be paired based on planned test priorities to make best use of track time.

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Alex how would pricing work if I wanted you to look at my road and Tt position ? Would it be 2 separate sessions or could it be done in the one session ?

 

It's certainly possible to test more than one bike set up, but that means the number of runs per bike is reduced to the point where we may not have sufficient opportunity to identify the right choice, and when we identify best option(s) it helps to retest during the session for validation. I'd suggest perhaps that such a session would work for checking other refinements, like bidons, clothing, helmets etc where the set-up changeover time is reduced compared with making changes to the bike.

 

 

Aero optimisation is an iterative process. A bit like training, we'll look for any low hanging aero fruit and get that right, then you progress towards more subtle refinements. e.g. for someone with a pretty good starting position for instance, if they were doing TTs under UCI rules, there is now more scope for how we angle the forearms, and that alone is worth checking. There are many options to consider, and there is no universal "this is always" better. In Perth we took a world champion track rider, lifted his front end 25mm and found him another second per km. Also found some extra speed for Luke Durbridge, which is a scary thought.

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If you are in Melbourne in March, are you able to do Aero Testing while you're there?

There are 4 Velodromes available most of which are free during the day

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Anyone else want to team up on either Friday 28th or Saturday 8th?

 

There is one Transitions member already down for the 8th, so get three more and I'll do the deal for that day.

 

edit: Mind you, you might hate each other for all I know :D

Edited by Alex Simmons

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If you are in Melbourne in March, are you able to do Aero Testing while you're there?

There are 4 Velodromes available most of which are free during the day

 

I'd also be interested in a similar thing in Melbourne ...

 

My Melbourne trip will depend on the Retul course being confirmed. Testing during that course will be held at DISC indoor velodrome.

 

The level of precision we squeeze out of testing demands an indoor velodrome, plus we are not at the mercy of the elements, which is a factor when making advance bookings and people are travelling.

 

Eventually I am looking to have this permanently set up in Melbourne, as I have done with Perth. It requires a partner committed to developing the local aero testing market, performing testing on a regular basis, as well as the technical competency required.

 

In the meantime, I'd be prepared to come down to do some group sessions in Melbourne provided I can justify the travel / accommodation costs. Obviously it's cheaper overall for me to come to Melbourne and find a local helper or two (a mechanic/wrench needed and preferably someone well versed in aero matters), than for a group to come up to Sydney.

 

Outdoor tracks would only be OK if the following is considered acceptable to the client:

- a lower level of precision meaning some changes would be harder to reliably demonstrate as better/worse (I'd estimate costs would at least double to achieving indoor-level precision - it would require aerosticks)

- fewer runs per session (outdoor tracks are generally much longer) and increased potential for runs to be disrupted by others

- time of day may not be convenient for a group (need to select most likely time for calm/stable conditions)

- some probability session would be cancelled due to weather (which makes the exercise commercially riskier)

 

May as well go indoors when you can.

 

 

Nevertheless I am considering the occasional test day in some regional locations on local tracks, but need to do some testing to see how the system works in that environment (private wireless network coverage over greater distances etc) and sans aerostick.

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Someone in Perth doing same for a lot more dosh

 

What/who is the set up in Perth? I'm not in a position (no pun intended) to look at it but I know a few people who might be very interested.

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I thought that this was included for free with the Crowie Camp? So we gotta pay extra?

 

Any training group or camp that would like to incorporate aerodynamics testing into their package would be welcome to discuss options with me.

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Sorry I didnt see the QLD dates in the first post. Can you tell us again?

Until they build an indoor track for the Comm Games, you may as well set up on windtrainers with a fan blowing for realism.

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Ash I could do the 8th I think..

Peter the 8th would work for me.

 

Alex you said you already have a tranny for the 8th can you fit a few more in. Anyone else?

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Peter the 8th would work for me.

 

Alex you said you already have a tranny for the 8th can you fit a few more in. Anyone else?

 

The 8th is now booked for an extended solo session, I just confirmed that. I may be able to fit a pair in afterwards but is 15th OK for you?

 

Peter has booked preferences as 15th or 29th, but says any Saturday. Can you do 15th?

 

15th has one other person booked already, so you, Peter and one more on that day would be great. :) (I'll do you guys the deal anyway, as this is special offer and I appreciate the support from Transitions)

 

Friday 28th is booked out.

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Was looking at racing batemans bay but put me down for the 15th as well.

 

So TrinewB and I are in. Peter?

 

Alex, how do we go about confirming the booking?

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If Peter can't make it I'm keen and can make it on the 15th.

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Was looking at racing batemans bay but put me down for the 15th as well.

 

So TrinewB and I are in. Peter?

 

Alex, how do we go about confirming the booking?

 

Just go to the booking form here and fill in details and select the SOLD OUT session on 15th:

AeroCoach Bookings

 

I'll be sending out invoices etc confirming details

 

If Peter can't make it I'm keen and can make it on the 15th.

 

Hi Rog

 

Peter nominated 15th as 1st preference, and with Ashley and TrinewB that session is now booked out. I already have another rider coming up from Canberra that day (a World and Paralympic champion).

 

Options are:

 

Fri 28 Feb: SOLD OUT

Sat 8 Mar: SOLD OUT

Sat 15 Mar: SOLD OUT

Wed 26 Mar: 1 Solo or 2 paired spots available

Sat 29 Mar: 2 Solo or 4 riders in pairs / group available

 

if you are paired on 26 or 29 Mar I'll still honour the Transitions group rate but need one other.

 

I'll be scheduling more dates for April/May in a week or two's time.

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Don't forget to do your hair and makeup, as I may be tagging along to a few sessions to take a few photos and get some insight into what happens and how it all works to put a story on the hotly anticipated Transitions website.

 

Big thanks to Alex for firstly being a very helpful and productive member of transitions and secondly for offering us a special rate for his services.

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If Peter can't make it I'm keen and can make it on the 15th.

 

Looks like I might get you in, I made an error with another booking that was actually supposed to be a pair, not one person, when I only had one place left. So seeing if they can do another day, which in that case you can take final spot for 15th.

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Looks like I might get you in, I made an error with another booking that was actually supposed to be a pair, not one person, when I only had one place left. So seeing if they can do another day, which in that case you can take final spot for 15th.

Great I'll take that spot and will go through the form as per your instructions above. Thanks Alex.

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Great I'll take that spot and will go through the form as per your instructions above. Thanks Alex.

 

Hi Rog, 15th is definitely booked out, so only Wed 26th March (1 spot) or Sat 29th March (3 spots) are available as of 6:40pm.

just use the webform link in post #30 above to register.

cheers!

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Can anyone tell me how easy this place is to get to

Is it far off a major rd that links with the Hume as we would be coming from the south (vic) and I'm not reel keen on to much trafficking

Cheers

Ip

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Mate it's about 2 mins off the Hume hwy at Bass Hill .

Cool

Alex would there be room for 2 more (me and mrs IP)

On the 29th

Cheers

Ip

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I'll take Wed 26th, thanks Alex.

 

Done, will send confirmation email - if you don't see it tonight, PM me your email as I have a gmail address from a few years ago.

 

Cool

Alex would there be room for 2 more (me and mrs IP)

On the 29th

Cheers

Ip

 

Yes, for sure, that would be great.

 

Click here to register, and select the 29th March.

 

 

Getting there is not hard. You exit M5 freeway at the junction with the M7 and take the Old Hume Hwy towards Sydney. That will take you almost all the way to the Velodrome, which is only ~500m off the Hume highway. There are slightly quicker ways but they require more knowledge if you don't have a GPS.

 

I'll help with more detailed instructions closer to the day.

 

That leaves only one spot on Sat 29 March.

 

Anyone else interested in testing and not able to take 29 March spot can use same link and choose the "I'd like to register interest for a later date" option.

 

Thanks people, awesome support. :)

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obviously position is the main thing. But I would like to get an idea of what helemts people have that might be interested in lending them for testing.

 

I have a small Giro advantage 2 that someone can borrow if they like.

Also a medium CS Apex Triathlon Speedsuit if you would like to compare clothing.

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Hi Ash I will be bringing Kask Bambino and Limar Crono on the day.

 

Would be great to try Specialized evade and Giro air attack if someone is happy to to lend those?

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I have a Scott Split you guys can borrow but would need to be delivered back to me before my aero test on the 26th.

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Hi Alex

I have filled out the form of interest for the 29th

I was going to email you this Q but it might interest other trannies thinking of getting this done with so called super bikes and there difficult front ends

 

We both have trek speed concept 9 series and the stem certainly isn't anything like a normal stem, and only fits a SC to adjust the base bar up or down or out and back you need a totally different stem for each movement , and each stem cost about $300

 

So what happens if you decided that mrs ip needs to go down but we can't because we don't have a smaller stem?

We have some risers and stuff for the extensions and pads to go up and down/in and out but that's about all the adjustment that would be available to us without having a bag full of expensive stems that we may never use

 

Would it be still worth the money , time and travel for us with this limited adjustment available

We can also test some helmets and biddon possies also

 

Your thoughts

Cheers

Ip

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Hi Alex

I have filled out the form of interest for the 29th

I was going to email you this Q but it might interest other trannies thinking of getting this done with so called super bikes and there difficult front ends

 

We both have trek speed concept 9 series and the stem certainly isn't anything like a normal stem, and only fits a SC to adjust the base bar up or down or out and back you need a totally different stem for each movement , and each stem cost about $300

 

So what happens if you decided that mrs ip needs to go down but we can't because we don't have a smaller stem?

We have some risers and stuff for the extensions and pads to go up and down/in and out but that's about all the adjustment that would be available to us without having a bag full of expensive stems that we may never use

 

Would it be still worth the money , time and travel for us with this limited adjustment available

We can also test some helmets and biddon possies also

 

Your thoughts

Cheers

Ip

 

It's a good question, and naturally I can only work with the adjust-ability options presented.

 

I would say the elbow pad and extensions up/down and fore/aft adjust-ability will be sufficient to define best option for the stem you have. The base bar placement is far less important* provided the elbow pads adjustment is there.

 

If the lowest possible position with a given stem feels a bit too low for you, or the amount you are able to be stretched out feels a bit too long, then I'd say the elbow pad spacers to manage height, and fore/aft will be fine, as we already know that going lower or longer isn't worth it in any case. And that can sometimes be attained with adjustments to saddle as well.

 

There is merit in establishing the effective bio-mechanical range a rider can work within, then to optimise the aerodynamics within that range.

 

Some bar set ups can be a little restrictive in adjustment. Every case is different.

 

* It's not unimportant, as sometimes having a decent vertical gap between the base bar and elbow pads can be a good thing (e.g. tall lanky riders) else you may be better off trying to have them all together, but first priority is body position - these are smaller refinements that may take more testing to tease out. Aero is a tricky animal, and the eye is often a poor judge.

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Speaking of aero things, I was reminded this morning of this old textbook picture from ~50 yeas ago, just to emphasize how important managing the way air flows around an object is.

 

Both shapes in this picture present the same amount of aero drag:

 

ibdgmw.jpg

 

So when I mark out things like cables etc and people laugh at such details, just come back to look at this pic.

 

It's why we look at things like upper arm angle, which is a balance between better aero (a vertical cylinder is generally less aero than a sloping cylinder) and being comfortable/relaxed for the duration of event (i.e. not created a pivot point at elbow that requires too much effort to support upper body mass).

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Hi There,

 

We would certainly be interested in talking with anyone from the WA area who is interested in utilising this technology. We can also discuss discounted options for group bookings.
You can call me directly on 0424894483.
We have another test on Tuesday next week and can schedule regular testing.

 

Look forward to answering any questions you may have.

Brad

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I have a Scott Split you guys can borrow but would need to be delivered back to me before my aero test on the 26th.

Is the offer still standing? I sent you a PM.

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Hi Ash

 

I've replied to your PM on Friday not sure what happened there.

 

Offer still stands I'm in Manly you're welcome to pick it up - it's a large size. Send me an email rppassis AT gmail.com

Edited by Rog

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