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Quack

TA Compulsory Membership

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Hmmm, my club rego is about to expire, so I wont be a club member on April 1, but will still be a TA member till June 30.

What do I do now for my club membership? Does my club have to collect a pro rata membership to bring my membership in line with TA membership?

Will they allow me to do club races as a non-member till 30 June? (I doubt it)

 

And for the record, Im all for Club/TA membership, I just dont understand why the change couldnt have coincided with TA renewal dates to make it a bit easier.

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Quite a few Sydney 'Tri Clubs' don't actually run any triathlons - some don't run races of any kind. Without actually being privvy to any facts, I make the uneducated assumption that this is due in large part to not being able to afford the type of insurance required to run events (particularly ones involving cycling on public roads).

 

Will compulsory TA membership make it easier for such clubs to run triathlons in their own right?

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And for the record, Im all for Club/TA membership, I just dont understand why the change couldnt have coincided with TA renewal dates to make it a bit easier.

 

 

It's your club that's out of kilter. Why would your club go April-March?

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Quite a few Sydney 'Tri Clubs' don't actually run any triathlons - some don't run races of any kind. Without actually being privvy to any facts, I make the uneducated assumption that this is due in large part to not being able to afford the type of insurance required to run events (particularly ones involving cycling on public roads).

 

Will compulsory TA membership make it easier for such clubs to run triathlons in their own right?

Finding a safe venue is the big hurdle. If a club runs a club triathlon, the sanctioning and insurance is much simplified but there is still a need to get all the approvals from the relevant authorities, and the list can be quite long indeed. The race is only open to club members (a slight simplification).

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It's your club that's out of kilter. Why would your club go April-March?

 

 

Why is TA July to June when most of the races for the average punter only commence around October / November and finish around March? Why does TA not accept memberships for the coming year until around June 26 when you need to enter races like Yeppoon in the early part of the year for an event in August?

 

Good to see some thought going into the whole process, don't believe it is correct yet and they need to take a much deeper look at the whole membership situation

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To my way of thinking, the logical 'year' would surely be either 1 July to 30 June (financial year) or 1 Jan- 30 Dec - given these are the most common stadard 'years' in Australia?

 

Our club is July-June, so we are happy with the TA year.

The starting date this year of 1 April is a bit more tricky for us this year..

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It's your club that's out of kilter. Why would your club go April-March?

 

You can join my club for a 12 month period at any time of the year.

My point was that the TA changes come in April 1, but my TA membership is till June 30.

Why not just have the changes come in effect on June 30 so there is no issues with differences in timing?

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Tinnie

 

TriNSW are offering a 'special' offer this year - so join from 1 April and get April, May, June as extra - then you need to renew on 1 July next year (so they are giving an extra 3 months this year if people want to join before 1 June).

 

We were told this was partly an incentive (and to ease the blow for those who did not really want to join TA) and partly to handle the fact that their model does not yet have a pro-rate option.

 

EG of how this could be a benefit given there is no prorata option if non-TA people want to register for IMFrankston or IMAus next year, they may need TA membership sooner that 1 July to help them get in as a priority (assuming there is priority entry for TA members...)

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It's still July - June isn't it?

 

Isn't the April-June just a bonus this first year for non financial members?

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My point was that the TA changes come in April 1, but my TA membership is till June 30.

 

 

Don't renew till July, easy.

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Diamonds, I hear you. Clubs could have been winners had the CA model been adopted that forces you to join a club to get TA coverage and vice versa - a one-to-one relationship between club membership and TA membership. Some people would have dipped out of their club, but some would have dipped in.

 

WIth the model they have selected it appears to disfavour clubs who will certainly take a hit in membership at the outset.

 

My view is it will be a one off shock and over a couple of years will probably average out to be no bigger than the normal annual churn.

 

 

The problem with this Tortoise is, with CA you have to be a member to race. So if you want to race bikes, you have to join CA. To join CA, you have to join a club. So the clubs don't miss out.

 

From what I understand, with the TA model if you want to race a triathlon, you can still take out a one day licence. So you don't have to join TA or a club. Our club currently has about 200 members. I can safely say if they were forced to join TA as well, that number would drop to about 50, maybe less.

 

How is that good for a regional club that has held a successful race series for the last couple of decades?

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WIth the model they have selected it appears to disfavour clubs who will certainly take a hit in membership at the outset.

 

My view is it will be a one off shock and over a couple of years will probably average out to be no bigger than the normal annual churn.

 

 

Why should the clubs cop it? Just so they raise their revenue?

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Disclaimer: I'm not a member of a club or any TA organisation.

 

Considering the money that is spent by the average AGer on doing their sport/s of choice - the cost is similar or less than the cost of a good pair of knicks so what's all the whinging about.

 

If you want to race, cough up the dough. Similar to the cost of petrol debate -if you want to drive, you have to pay for it.

 

 

What's the whinging about?

 

Well, for one, it is limiting factor on broadening the sport's participant base.

 

Most people considering (or who would otherwise consider) trying out the sport are not (and are now less likely to become), the committed age group competitors keen to be slugged an additional couple of hundred dollars even before they are involved in the sport. There is already far better value racing to be found in running, swimming and cycling events and this just acts as another financial incentive for people to choose those sports.

 

The effectiveness of triathlon's best advertising and best marketing pales in comparison to experiencing the excitement of an event and the satisfaction for a first-timer in crossing that the finish line. That is what makes people want to do the sport and that is what "sells" it to newbies (and drags former adherents and occasional dabblers back). This is just another impediment to getting people racing.

 

You really think these people are rushing out to spend $200 on a pair of knicks too? Posting from Abu Dhabi.......hmmm.........

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A minor issue I have is that we were originally told that the price of TA membership would go down once they made membership mandatory - as there would be so many more members - economy of scale re the insurance.

Now, membership numbers should jump a great deal - yet they have not reduced the price. Having said that, $120 is not OTT.

Would also have liked student membership at a reduced cost.

Edited by Quack

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We were also told last year that they wouldn't do it last year because they didn't want to rush it.

 

Now 12 months later it's looking a little rushed.

 

Have they sat around doing nothing for 12 months?

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how many clubs (ball park figure) have a percentage of members that don't actually enter any mainstream triathlons and only do club races, attend social events etc?

 

 

Mick, surely this is an example of the broad-based market research that the board should have undertaken as part of its due diligence before implementing a significant policy change?

 

Most club secretaries could have pulled together reliable statistics on this and other related background to help the board iron out the implementation issues. Instead, we have an announcement to its membership that is light on real detail, appears to have taken club executives by surprise and which raises many questions for TA and club members alike.

 

Edit to add:

Governance matters.

Edited by tortoise

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how many clubs (ball park figure) have a percentage of members that don't actually enter any mainstream triathlons and only do club races, attend social events etc?

 

I have no idea how widespread this is but I know a couple of guys who do exactly this. They got the whole IM thing out of their systems and now just do club races and ocean swims as the cost - or perhaps value - of mainstream triathlons became an issue.

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You'd hope the question had been asked before making changes? Not that hard to find out from the clubs.

Edited by Rog

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how many clubs (ball park figure) have a percentage of members that don't actually enter any mainstream triathlons and only do club races, attend social events etc?

 

 

I'll answer the question. Without looking right into it (which I will over this weekend), I would say 60-70% of our members either don't race or just do the local races. Of the remaining 30-40% I would say a bit over half of those would currently be TA members.

 

We are a regional club in Qld. We hold our own 10-12 race series which is open to members and non-members (only members are eligible for series points).

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Mick, surely this is an example of the broad-based market research that the board should have undertaken as part of its due diligence before implementing a significant policy change?

 

Most club secretaries could have pulled together reliable statistics on this and other related background to help the board iron out the implementation issues. Instead, we have an announcement to its membership that is light on real detail, appears to have taken club executives by surprise and which raises many questions for TA and club members alike.

 

Edit to add:

Governance matters.

 

 

dunno, ask TNSW

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For clubs concerned about members not wanting to join TA as they only do club races, another way to look at this is to consider how their members are insured while training.

If they had an accident while training and got sued - do they as individuals have liability insurance to protect them from losing all their assets etc? If they are TA members, they do.

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I my case out through injury but feel it's important to support my club by remaining a financial member

 

Then just join TA as a social/non-competing member - $5

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how many clubs (ball park figure) have a percentage of members that don't actually enter any mainstream triathlons and only do club races, attend social events etc?

 

 

No idea what the percentage is, but I would a number guess of those in this group would probably "graduate" to being mainstream tri participants within a season or two. Even if the number only represented 10-15% of the club each season, it may be a 10-15% that is with a relatively high turn over as newer club members become entrenched in the sport.

 

I hope that avenue of introduction to the sport isn't now largely shut down.

 

Actually, with the exception of one race, your description pretty much describes me for the last couple of seasons.

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No idea what the percentage is, but I would a number guess of those in this group would probably "graduate" to being mainstream tri participants within a season or two. Even if the number only represented 10-15% of the club each season, it may be a 10-15% that is with a relatively high turn over as newer club members become entrenched in the sport.

 

I hope that avenue of introduction to the sport isn't now largely shut down.

 

Actually, with the exception of one race, your description pretty much describes me for the last couple of seasons.

 

 

yeh Paul, and i'm guessing a significant percentage of club members only really run and swim in terms of training - so the 3rd party damage cover is of little relevance for them

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For clubs concerned about members not wanting to join TA as they only do club races, another way to look at this is to consider how their members are insured while training. If they had an accident while training and got sued - do they as individuals have liability insurance to protect them from losing all their assets etc? If they are TA members, they do.

We have a family membership of Bicycle NSW and we're all covered for liability in a bike crash (Cyclecover) which I assume is the scenario about which you'd be most concerned. Actually that raises an interesting question, are you covered by TA for a training accident while running or swimming?

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Tinnie

 

TriNSW are offering a 'special' offer this year - so join from 1 April and get April, May, June as extra - then you need to renew on 1 July next year (so they are giving an extra 3 months this year if people want to join before 1 June).

 

We were told this was partly an incentive (and to ease the blow for those who did not really want to join TA) and partly to handle the fact that their model does not yet have a pro-rate option.

 

EG of how this could be a benefit given there is no prorata option if non-TA people want to register for IMFrankston or IMAus next year, they may need TA membership sooner that 1 July to help them get in as a priority (assuming there is priority entry for TA members...)

 

According to the email, its for NEW members only. Maybe its an oversight, but according to that any renewing member is screwed.

Don't renew till July, easy.

 

But I want to rejoin my club and race with them till June 30, which means they would have to offer a pro-rata fee for an unknown number of members and for who know how many different time periods.

Its not so simple, thats for sure.

 

Might just go and race with Illawarra CC and get my arse handed to me there instead...so much easier than all this TA shit.

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According to the email, its for NEW members only. Maybe its an oversight, but according to that any renewing member is screwed.

 

But I want to rejoin my club and race with them till June 30, which means they would have to offer a pro-rata fee for an unknown number of members and for who know how many different time periods.

Its not so simple, thats for sure.

 

Might just go and race with Illawarra CC and get my arse handed to me there instead...so much easier than all this TA shit.

 

 

This doesn't really effect you Tinny.

You're a club member and a TA member.

Join your club today and TA on July 1st.

 

Next year might be different. When your club membership runs out you'll have to join via TA so essentially lose 3 months TA membership or by that time your club may extend their membership for free until June 30th.

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yeh Paul, and i'm guessing a significant percentage of club members only really run and swim in terms of training - so the 3rd party damage cover is of little relevance for them

 

 

...and probably quite a few who are only aiming to race 20 km do the bulk of their bike miles on the windtrainer.

 

I also wonder how many people who cycle regularly are truly concerned about 3rd party insurance? I run or ride to work along a popular bike commuter route and see many cyclists. What percentage would be totally unconcerned with 3rd party? Probably not too different a group mindset from those who think "Yeah, triathlon. Wouldn't mind having a go at one of those."

 

Perhaps insurance is viewed more as an inconsequential added benefit and a legal obligation, rather than an membership inducement, for potential TA members.

 

Not debating the necessity (or otherwise) for TA to provide the cover, more pondering on how it viewed by prospective triathletes.

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TriNSW are offering a 'special' offer this year - so join from 1 April and get April, May, June as extra - then you need to renew on 1 July next year (so they are giving an extra 3 months this year if people want to join before 1 June).

 

 

So does this mean if I join now, I can get a start at Club Champs?

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So does this mean if I join now, I can get a start at Club Champs?

 

 

Without knowing the 100% answer if you join on April1st you're a member and therefore eligible.

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So does this mean if I join now, I can get a start at Club Champs?

 

yes

given today is 14 March and Champs is likely to be on sale unto 31 March (unless sold out before)

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...and probably quite a few who are only aiming to race 20 km do the bulk of their bike miles on the windtrainer.

 

I also wonder how many people who cycle regularly are truly concerned about 3rd party insurance? I run or ride to work along a popular bike commuter route and see many cyclists. What percentage would be totally unconcerned with 3rd party? Probably not too different a group mindset from those who think "Yeah, triathlon. Wouldn't mind having a go at one of those."

 

Perhaps insurance is viewed more as an inconsequential added benefit and a legal obligation, rather than an membership inducement, for potential TA members.

 

Not debating the necessity (or otherwise) for TA to provide the cover, more pondering on how it viewed by prospective triathletes.

 

 

People may well ride around and not care about liability insurance - but that does not make them clever.

I know I would rather pay the whole $120 and not risk my house just in case of the small chance I did cause an accident riding (or running for that matter, though the chance is even more remote).

I have life insurance and income protection, but I am not expecting to become disabled or die soon - but it seems (to me) to be sensible anyway. But of course, some people don;t worry about those things.

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What's the whinging about?

 

Well, for one, it is limiting factor on broadening the sport's participant base.

 

Most people considering (or who would otherwise consider) trying out the sport are not (and are now less likely to become), the committed age group competitors keen to be slugged an additional couple of hundred dollars even before they are involved in the sport. There is already far better value racing to be found in running, swimming and cycling events and this just acts as another financial incentive for people to choose those sports.

 

The effectiveness of triathlon's best advertising and best marketing pales in comparison to experiencing the excitement of an event and the satisfaction for a first-timer in crossing that the finish line. That is what makes people want to do the sport and that is what "sells" it to newbies (and drags former adherents and occasional dabblers back). This is just another impediment to getting people racing.

 

You really think these people are rushing out to spend $200 on a pair of knicks too? Posting from Abu Dhabi.......hmmm.........

 

Plenty of threads here about high end knick and kit purchasing.......

 

yep posted from Abu Dhabi and I do fit the busness model too by the way - worked my arse off for the past 30+ years, raised 4 kids and put them thru school and Uni, did the whole run around with Little A's, Surf Life saving, netball, swimming etc. Now I have cash to spend on me and I will.

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The problem with this Tortoise is, with CA you have to be a member to race. So if you want to race bikes, you have to join CA. To join CA, you have to join a club. So the clubs don't miss out.

 

From what I understand, with the TA model if you want to race a triathlon, you can still take out a one day licence. So you don't have to join TA or a club. Our club currently has about 200 members. I can safely say if they were forced to join TA as well, that number would drop to about 50, maybe less.

 

How is that good for a regional club that has held a successful race series for the last couple of decades?

 

our club is the same, of about 200 + members we only have about 60-70 `triathletes` as the others do our popular swim runs, i am pretty sure we will lose most of them next year.What about if we were to have two clubs with one for the triathletes and one for the swim runners ?. how do you think that would go ?

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I'll answer the question. Without looking right into it (which I will over this weekend), I would say 60-70% of our members either don't race or just do the local races. Of the remaining 30-40% I would say a bit over half of those would currently be TA members.

 

We are a regional club in Qld. We hold our own 10-12 race series which is open to members and non-members (only members are eligible for series points).

 

exactly same as our club !

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Plenty of threads here about high end knick and kit purchasing.......

 

yep posted from Abu Dhabi and I do fit the busness model too by the way - worked my arse off for the past 30+ years, raised 4 kids and put them thru school and Uni, did the whole run around with Little A's, Surf Life saving, netball, swimming etc. Now I have cash to spend on me and I will.

 

 

Yes, plenty of threads about purchasing all sorts of expensive crapola. No probs with that. No, I don't think anyone is begrudging of how or where you earn your dosh, or how you spend it.

 

The point you appear to missing is that triathlon is a mass participation sport, hence the sport is pretty much at its healthiest (at the non-elite level anyway) when it has its greatest number of participants regularly involved and engaged with it.

 

That is best done by democratising the sport, largely by making it as affordable, attractive and accessible to a greater number of people. Dismissively justifying the cost of a TA membership as the same as a pair of expensive knicks is insular and of little help.

 

Bet you see plenty of other people toiling away in Abu Dhabi who have worked hard for 30 years as well, but who would want many of them competing in our sport anyway?

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our club is the same, of about 200 + members we only have about 60-70 `triathletes` as the others do our popular swim runs, i am pretty sure we will lose most of them next year.What about if we were to have two clubs with one for the triathletes and one for the swim runners ?. how do you think that would go ?

 

Just wondering but are your swim/run races sanctioned by TNSW/TA? Or do you have another insurance source for these races. If they are covered by TA then how much are the one day fees for the club members who are not TA members? or does your club absorb that? I guess the same question for downesy68.

 

I have no real position on this (as I was a self selected TA member) but I was just wondering if the clubs who run internal events & have low TA memberships run events not covered by TA?

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our club is the same, of about 200 + members we only have about 60-70 `triathletes` as the others do our popular swim runs, i am pretty sure we will lose most of them next year.What about if we were to have two clubs with one for the triathletes and one for the swim runners ?. how do you think that would go ?

 

I believe you can do that- have 2 different divisions - a triathlon group and a running or swimming group - with different memberships (and insurance requirements)

I don't know the exact 'rules' by which this is done, but I have heard from a TriNSW person that a couple of clubs do it.

Give Phil Dalley at TriNSW a call - he can tell you

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I believe you can do that- have 2 different divisions - a triathlon group and a running or swimming group - with different memberships (and insurance requirements)

I don't know the exact 'rules' by which this is done, but I have heard from a TriNSW person that a couple of clubs do it.

Give Phil Dalley at TriNSW a call - he can tell you

 

Edit.

Edited by Formerly known as BOTP II

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If they need the $ it would be simpler to raise the affiliation fee on clubs who have non TA members.

 

 

That was the case.

 

Clubs that had compulsory TriNSW membership such as Cronulla paid around $500 other clubs who weren't compulsory it was around $900.

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My disappointment is the stifling of growing clubs and TA.

 

Next year you wil be able to race at an event (say Kurnell) and pay a one day licence (all good).

 

Yet if a member of the public makes an enquiry with our club and says can I come try an event or do an Aquathon with you they can't. Clubs can not do one day licences. So what do you say to these people? If you want to do an even you must join us which involves joining TriNSW and that will cost you nearly $200 thank you very much (very bad).

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Nealo.

I asked TriNSW about this.

They say people can come do try out sessions before joining. The method explained to me was that we (the club) just need to note who they are in some sort of a register (don't think this has to be overly complicated, but just shows we know they are there) - and the people need to be briefed properly prior to the session (eg a ride briefing before a group ride - duty of care). Apparently the insurance with Willis will have this in writing somewhere. I am hoping to get more detail...

 

We mange this in events by having non-club members agree to our waiver when registering for an event (and thus we k ow who they are at an event). So far, we have no system in place for try-outs at training sessions.. But we will have to work something out now..

 

I will follow this up and send you whatever detail I get...

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