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19 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

But can you really get a pension if you have $1.3M and are getting $70K income? I might be in for an easier life than I thought in retirement.

No. My wife and I are self funded and have roughly that amount in super between us and we are not entitled to a pension. We have shares in a couple of companies but  nothing worth much. We own our home, car etc. but we don’t have any investment properties to negative gear or other income.

We  had to sell our house in Hornsby and move to a regional area to afford retirement.

Edited by fiftyplus

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26 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

But can you really get a pension if you have $1.3M and are getting $70K income? I might be in for an easier life than I thought in retirement.

The franking credit policy had nothing to do with pensions specifically. You could happen to be a pensioner (E.g. a part pension or A full pension with small holdings) and lose some money from the change, but not 20k obviously! 

It affected retirees. Particuarly self managed super fund retirees.

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38 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

I voted lnp

but as facts are not popular here

https://www.alp.org.au/other/dividend-imputation-credits/

Interesting reading.

Whether I agree or disagree with this particular policy one thing I'd like to see is phased changes of policy.

What I mean, in this particular example, it was to be introduced in 6 weeks time. This could have major economic impacts to some people. People need to have time to readjust their investments etc. Both side implement dramatic change often after elections and it shits me.

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23 minutes ago, nealo said:

Whether I agree or disagree with this particular policy one thing I'd like to see is phased changes of policy.

What I mean, in this particular example, it was to be introduced in 6 weeks time. This could have major economic impacts to some people. People need to have time to readjust their investments etc. Both side implement dramatic change often after elections and it shits me.

Good points Nealo. I suspect the major issue with the imputation credits policy was the hint of retrospectivity about it. People have planned their retirement for years - possibly making the decision whether to retire or not based on the existing policy - were suddenly faced with moving goalposts.

The amounts don't matter - this was a principle issue and I believe most Australians believe their superannuation and its related earnings are theirs - and sacrosanct. People don't want to work and save for 50 years only to have their 'golden years' income tampered with.

Edited by trinube
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I wonder now the LNP have won, and people are now aware of the franking credit that may not have been before if this will end up costing a lot more? 

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3 hours ago, roxii said:

I wonder now the LNP have won, and people are now aware of the franking credit that may not have been before if this will end up costing a lot more? 

Maybe. I'm not sure if people who are secure with their industry or retail funds are going to suddenly change to self managed.

A tangentical point, the average superannuation of people my age (60) is $240,000. If that's what you intend on living on for the rest of your life I can see why they're so protective of every dollar. I'd be terrified - or working till I'm 80.

Edited by trinube

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14 minutes ago, trinube said:

Maybe. I'm not sure if people are secure with their industry or retail funds they're going to suddenly change to self managed.

A tangentical point, the average superannuation of people my age (60) is $240,000. If that's what you intend on living on for the rest of your life I can see why they're so protective of every dollar. I'd be terrified - or working till I'm 80.

I am going until 90, hopefully bunnings will still be around...

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3 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

Any conflict interest for you

Oh please 

Dyson Heydon not going to a Liberal function was a massive conflict of interest 

But the brother of Labor's shadow industrial relations minister being the head of the CFMEU?  'Nothing to see here...'

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13 hours ago, dazaau said:

That's one pathway, another would be to give up on going to the University of Sydney or Melbourne and start out at a lower uni and/or lower course. Then you change unis/degrees when you prove yourself to be good. May take longer.

But I see what you are saying, but this is mostly an allocation problem.

I do despise the way atar is used to allocate limited course numbers. Just because atar is high doesn't mean the course is hard, just popular and limited. 

 

Ok, so we have just been through this process with my daughter in Year 12. For the course she's interested in (Vet Surgery), if she doesn't get 98 she will have to attend a regional Uni for 6 years. The cost of accommodation will be around $10K per year if she lives on campus. 

Using the Physio example: 4 years at 10K Undergrad CSP. $40K, plus $10K per year accomodation, another $40K. Won;t qualify for any govt assistance. So if her parents can't stump the accommodation cost the kid is up for $80,000 doing it the "easy" way at a regional Uni like Orange or Port Macquarie to use the Physio example. Plus social cost of moving away from family or friends, sport etc (may be a plus I realise)

And ATAR is used to artificially limit Undergrad enrolments and push people into the Masters course to make $$$$ for the Uni, there has been a horrendous shortage in labour in the Physio market over the last decade, this has recently improved but still hasn't caught up and the ATAR hasn't moved, the UG enrolments hasn't skyrocketed

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My point overall is, I would hate to go down the US pathway of tuition fees. We met a 30 year old primary school teacher in the States waiting tables 5 nights a week because he had to pay off his student loan. He had a wife and baby at home. This is working harder according to the obtuse politicians. This is shit in my book.

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1 hour ago, Prince said:

I am going until 90, hopefully bunnings will still be around...

Hit old Tone up for a loan. He's on $300K pension (indexed with pollies pay rises) for life, plus the business class golden ticket). Good going for a northern beaches battler.

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4 minutes ago, Parkside said:

to artificially limit Undergrad enrolments and push people into the Masters course to make $$$$ for the Uni, there has been a horrendous shortage in labour in the Physio market over the last decade, this has recently improved but still hasn't caught up and the ATAR hasn't moved, the UG enrolments hasn't skyrocketed

 

1 minute ago, Parkside said:

My point overall is, I would hate to go down the US pathway of tuition fees.This is working harder according to the obtuse politicians. This is shit in my book.

How are University fees set? Is it just some arbitrary number the University comes up with or are there fees stipulated by the government?

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1 hour ago, trinube said:

 

How are University fees set? Is it just some arbitrary number the University comes up with or are there fees stipulated by the government?

3 tiers set by federal government Top tier for highest paying professional degrees about $12K a year, second tier is 9,400, bottom tier 6,400 ish. 

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7 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

Shorty's message was okay

As long as the ALP believes that, they will be in opposition regardless of who the leader is. When the member for hunter has a 10% swing against him in Labor heartland, you know the message is crap 

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5 minutes ago, Mr Tinman said:

As long as the ALP believes that, they will be in opposition regardless of who the leader is. When the member for hunter has a 10% swing against him in Labor heartland, you know the message is crap 

Messaging was lame 

 

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Anyway I voted lnp

i don’t live pay to pay

wont be working at Bunnings till 90

will pay tuition for kids

the settings worked for me

if you live pay to pay and will work till 90 maybe not

 

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1 minute ago, BarryBevan said:

Messaging was lame 

They had enough people pushing it for them. ACTU, Getup, Teachers' Union, Nurses, Drs, CFMEU etc

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About to buy an investment place that if the plan works the kids can move out when they are 19 20. 

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2 hours ago, Parkside said:

My point overall is, I would hate to go down the US pathway of tuition fees. We met a 30 year old primary school teacher in the States waiting tables 5 nights a week because he had to pay off his student loan. He had a wife and baby at home. This is working harder according to the obtuse politicians. This is shit in my book.

I agree the US model is nasty. I recall one disaster in which someone couldn't pay back their student loan on time as they were trying to find a legal job after finishing their law degree. This resulted in a bad debts which barred them from practicing law in the state. #winning

The ATAR stuff irks me. Doctors are a good example. There is seemingly a shortage of doctors as most of the doctors I have seen are from overseas. The required ATAR score is very high to get in, and attracts "smart" people - who may or may not give a stuff about their patients. I think it is sad that if you really want to help people you need to be in the top 2% in your state at sitting an exam. There are also people who are very smart and have a love for education and teaching but don't want to get a teaching degree because it is "wasting" their high ATAR score. 

One option for sneaking around these things is also to work for a while and then enrol as a mature age student. I managed to get a degree from a G8 university without an ATAR score at all, so strange things are possible when you step outside the system. 

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38 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Messaging was lame 

 

This is the problem with the modern ALP

They tell people what they want rather then asking them what they would like 

As I said before, ask No Coal Joel  how that worked for him 

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3 minutes ago, dazaau said:

One option for sneaking around these things is also to work for a while and then enrol as a mature age student. I managed to get a degree from a G8 university without an ATAR score at all, so strange things are possible when you step outside the system. 

You're in the majority.

Only 26% of students gain entry to university using their ATAR.

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2 minutes ago, dazaau said:

I agree the US model is nasty. I recall one disaster in which someone couldn't pay back their student loan on time as they were trying to find a legal job after finishing their law degree. This resulted in a bad debts which barred them from practicing law in the state. #winning

The ATAR stuff irks me. Doctors are a good example. There is seemingly a shortage of doctors as most of the doctors I have seen are from overseas. The required ATAR score is very high to get in, and attracts "smart" people - who may or may not give a stuff about their patients. I think it is sad that if you really want to help people you need to be in the top 2% in your state at sitting an exam. There are also people who are very smart and have a love for education and teaching but don't want to get a teaching degree because it is "wasting" their high ATAR score. 

One option for sneaking around these things is also to work for a while and then enrol as a mature age student. I managed to get a degree from a G8 university without an ATAR score at all, so strange things are possible when you step outside the system. 

The interview process weeds many of those ones out.

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1 minute ago, Mr Tinman said:

This is the problem with the modern ALP

They tell people what they want rather then asking them what they would like 

As I said before, ask No Coal Joel  how that worked for him 

Agree. The take away message from bill was a whole bunch of green stuff. Maybe they could have had a different conversation.

https://www.afr.com/news/economy/the-economic-truth-of-coal-mines-20181112-h17s9w

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Bowen is officially in. Wonder when he will drop the current labor policies. 

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On 18/05/2019 at 10:33 AM, Mr Tinman said:

RIP Bob

The last Labor leader who tried to bring the country together rather than trade on the politics of envy

One from the vault for the Bob fans:

BOB.thumb.png.c32057b18f0bd513726d7dd1a9267ce6.png

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1 hour ago, Prince said:

Bowen is officially in.

Seriously, if they pick him they're fools. They need a change of direction and personnel.

Fitzgibbon has the right idea - he wants to bring the party closer to the centre. Problem is he'll have exactly the problem Turnbull had with the right wing of the LNP. I don't think Fitzgibbon is the right person for the job, but at least he's talking to me with what he says.

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Quote

The required ATAR score is very high to get in, and attracts "smart" people - who may or may not give a stuff about their patients. 

Yep there is a significant interview/assessment of reasoning before they let you in.  ITs also based on demand which is a bit simplistic in some cases.  Mind you we had a lecturer that said 50% to pass an exam was crap as it was too low.  He used the analogy of a DR only knowing half the procedure.  He used to mark hard... and fail people but that was a while ago.

 

Edited by symo
typo

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I would think Albo is the man. The biggest looming problem for them will be deciding who they are. If they stay with their emissions target and environmental policy, they will keep losing their blue collar base. Everyone in Qld North knew why shortpantz wouldn't commit to supporting Adani.Trying to play both sides is an impossibility. When they do their analysis, labor will realise their policies were ok in some States, but highly on the nose in other states. They played an each way bet but the 100-1 horse came home. 

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1 minute ago, symo said:

Yep there is a significant interview/assessment of reasoning before they let you in.  ITs also based on demand whcih si a bit simplistic in some cases.  Mind you we had a lecturer that said 50% to pass an exam was crap as it was too low.  He used the analogy of a DR only knowing half the procedure.  He used to mark hard...

50% is too low, I agree! 

Glad they screen people. I just think it's sad if you are bright and have a strong interest in medicine you can't get in. Especially when there appears to be a shortage of locals. It's a lot of study and hard work as it is! 

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2 hours ago, Mr Tinman said:

This is the problem with the modern ALP

They tell people what they want rather then asking them what they would like 

As I said before, ask No Coal Joel  how that worked for him 

Exactly this, and then when they lose they insult people's intelligence. For a group who are supposed to represent the working class they sure have become smug and elitist 

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5 hours ago, trinube said:

They had enough people pushing it for them. ACTU, Getup, Teachers' Union, Nurses, Drs, CFMEU etc

Trouble is the CFMEU was at odds with Getup, ACTU has just gone completely off the reservation under Sally having her own personal class war and most of the other unions are too busy being at odds with the party unless they can guarantee 6%+ increases and doubling of numbers

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12 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

But can you really get a pension if you have $1.3M and are getting $70K income? I might be in for an easier life than I thought in retirement.

No.. but if they take your franking credits you will be :)

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12 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

I voted lnp

 

but as facts are not popular here

 

https://www.alp.org.au/other/dividend-imputation-credits/

Interesting read.... just goes to show that no one in the Labor Party knew there own policy and if they did certainly did not know how to sell it.

Lets call it complacency of there part.

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9 hours ago, Parkside said:

Hit old Tone up for a loan. He's on $300K pension (indexed with pollies pay rises) for life, plus the business class golden ticket). Good going for a northern beaches battler.

Fully deserved too I might add. 

Edited by IronmanFoz
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2 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

Fully deserved too I might add. 

I agree. Some of the old pollie pensions were over the top, but I think ex-PM's should be looked after.

No matter how big an embarrassment they were.

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39 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I agree. Some of the old pollie pensions were over the top, but I think ex-PM's should be looked after.

No matter how big an embarrassment they were.

Further to add. That whole pollie pension thing needs to be reviewed in some way. When u you guys who are in there 20's and gets two terms and is out by the time he's 30...they should not get a life time pension. I can't recall the persons name but there has been a couple.

Like most things I feel it should be on longevity and contribution to society.... but how do they measure that.

Am not sure any of them deserve the ongoing office, PA's, driver's etc etc etc.

Edited by IronmanFoz
Typos

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13 hours ago, nealo said:

Interesting reading.

Whether I agree or disagree with this particular policy one thing I'd like to see is phased changes of policy.

What I mean, in this particular example, it was to be introduced in 6 weeks time. This could have major economic impacts to some people. People need to have time to readjust their investments etc. Both side implement dramatic change often after elections and it shits me.

yes, i think thats why they were grand fathering everything if elected so it affected nobody.  if you did you were still the same, if you never have done, you were still the same.

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11 hours ago, Parkside said:

My point overall is, I would hate to go down the US pathway of tuition fees. We met a 30 year old primary school teacher in the States waiting tables 5 nights a week because he had to pay off his student loan. He had a wife and baby at home. This is working harder according to the obtuse politicians. This is shit in my book.

yes, education is still very cheap in australia compared to the US.   same as i wouldnt want to get sick in america without insurance.

we might have a liberal govt but we still have a lot of socialist ideals in this country, whether university fees, govt payments to schools, the pbs, medicare, health insurance subsidies, franking credits when you pay no tax, pensions, council rate discounts, car rego discounts, senior discounts, tollway rebates, first home buyer welfare and on and on it goes.

Edited by Oompa Loompa

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53 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

we might have a liberal govt but we still have a lot of socialist ideals in this country, whether university fees, govt payments to schools, the pbs, medicare, health insurance subsidies, franking credits when you pay no tax, pensions, council rate discounts, car rego discounts, senior discounts, tollway rebates, first home buyer welfare and on and on it goes.

What we have in this country is an aging population that is getting bigger and bigger and for the size of the country we lack the number of people who can pay sufficient taxes to sustain it. This is why out taxes are high compared to a lot of smaller countries with larger populations.

Look at Singapore tax rate is between 10 -20 % depending on your income etc (give or take). There population is 1/5 of ours, Yet the country is 10764 times smaller. What this means is lower tax rates....  because there government don't have to maintain a country that is 4000km wide etc....lots of roads.

We need more people....but how do you get more people who are working and pay tax and not residing in major cities. Not an easy task for either government. but what we don't want is more people on hand outs!

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On 10/05/2019 at 9:09 PM, IronmanFoz said:

Will we see a "Transitions" party at the next election. It's clear we have all the answers. We will no doubt handle all of Australia's problems first and then if we get time we will make any "Active Fee" for triathlon races illegal.

FP, Rimmer, TC and myself will get busy with sorting Brexit in the meantime ;)

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2 hours ago, monkie said:

FP, Rimmer, TC and myself will get busy with sorting Brexit in the meantime ;)

What shall we do after lunch? :confused1:

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Seems Bill can't keep his nose out of leadership contests. It's reported he's  been ringing around dissing both Albo and Bowen and trying to get someone from Victoria up. He back-stabbed a couple of previous leaders and  now can't accept he's not still in charge. Probably thinks if he can get a Victorian leader he can be the puppet master.

This bloke has zero integrity - Australia dodged a bullet. Piss off and let the party decide on their own.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/it-s-weird-bill-shorten-stuns-colleagues-as-he-lobbies-against-anthony-albanese-20190521-p51pni.html

Edited by trinube

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25 minutes ago, trinube said:

Seems Bill can't keep his nose out of leadership contests. It's reported he's  been ringing around dissing both Albo and Bowen and trying to get someone from Victoria up. He back-stabbed a couple of previous leaders and  now can't accept he's not still in charge. Probably thinks if he can get a Victorian leader he can be the puppet master.

This bloke has zero integrity - Australia dodged a bullet. Piss off and let the party decide on their own.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/it-s-weird-bill-shorten-stuns-colleagues-as-he-lobbies-against-anthony-albanese-20190521-p51pni.html

He's actually doing Labor a favour by opposing Albo.  But seriously, where's his self awareness? 

By the time the next election rolls around, the coalition will have been in power for 20 of the past 26 years.  Which would have been 23 if two conservative electorates were not betrayed by their members in 2010

If you want to stretch that out even further Bill,  go for it 

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11 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Further to add. That whole pollie pension thing needs to be reviewed in some way. When u you guys who are in there 20's and gets two terms and is out by the time he's 30...they should not get a life time pension. I can't recall the persons name but there has been a couple.

 

Not any more Foz, the current scheme doesn't permit that. Changed in 2004 thanks to Latham forcing Howard into a corner, perhaps the only decent thing Latham ever accomplished. 

You could be thinking of ex Nationals Senator Bill O'Chee. In the 90's he did about 9 years in the Senate, appointed without an election at the age of 24 to replace a retiring Nationals Senator.  He retired on a pension and perks at 34 years and through a loophole in the old parliamentary pension scheme left his wife and handicapped son with nothing when he divorced her. After dabbling in Skeleton and Bobsled he’s now know worldwide a one of Wikileaks supergrasses.

 

 

Edited by Mike Del

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36 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

You could be thinking of ex Nationals Senator Bill O'Chee. In the 90's he did about 9 years in the Senate, appointed without an election at the age of 24 to replace a retiring Nationals Senator.  He retired on a pension and perks at 34 years 

Contrast this with Ted Mack who deliberately resigned from parliament two days before his pension entitlements kicked in. We need more Ted Macks.

"Shortly after his 1988 victory, he abruptly retired from all of his offices. He did so just two days short of serving seven years in parliament, which would have made him eligible for parliamentary pension entitlements in excess of $1,000,000. Mack had always taken a dim view of what he perceived as the excesses of public political office, and decided to retire in protest."

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