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1 minute ago, Mr Tinman said:

This is the problem with the modern ALP

They tell people what they want rather then asking them what they would like 

As I said before, ask No Coal Joel  how that worked for him 

Agree. The take away message from bill was a whole bunch of green stuff. Maybe they could have had a different conversation.

https://www.afr.com/news/economy/the-economic-truth-of-coal-mines-20181112-h17s9w

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On 18/05/2019 at 10:33 AM, Mr Tinman said:

RIP Bob

The last Labor leader who tried to bring the country together rather than trade on the politics of envy

One from the vault for the Bob fans:

BOB.thumb.png.c32057b18f0bd513726d7dd1a9267ce6.png

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1 hour ago, Prince said:

Bowen is officially in.

Seriously, if they pick him they're fools. They need a change of direction and personnel.

Fitzgibbon has the right idea - he wants to bring the party closer to the centre. Problem is he'll have exactly the problem Turnbull had with the right wing of the LNP. I don't think Fitzgibbon is the right person for the job, but at least he's talking to me with what he says.

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The required ATAR score is very high to get in, and attracts "smart" people - who may or may not give a stuff about their patients. 

Yep there is a significant interview/assessment of reasoning before they let you in.  ITs also based on demand which is a bit simplistic in some cases.  Mind you we had a lecturer that said 50% to pass an exam was crap as it was too low.  He used the analogy of a DR only knowing half the procedure.  He used to mark hard... and fail people but that was a while ago.

 

Edited by symo
typo

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I would think Albo is the man. The biggest looming problem for them will be deciding who they are. If they stay with their emissions target and environmental policy, they will keep losing their blue collar base. Everyone in Qld North knew why shortpantz wouldn't commit to supporting Adani.Trying to play both sides is an impossibility. When they do their analysis, labor will realise their policies were ok in some States, but highly on the nose in other states. They played an each way bet but the 100-1 horse came home. 

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1 minute ago, symo said:

Yep there is a significant interview/assessment of reasoning before they let you in.  ITs also based on demand whcih si a bit simplistic in some cases.  Mind you we had a lecturer that said 50% to pass an exam was crap as it was too low.  He used the analogy of a DR only knowing half the procedure.  He used to mark hard...

50% is too low, I agree! 

Glad they screen people. I just think it's sad if you are bright and have a strong interest in medicine you can't get in. Especially when there appears to be a shortage of locals. It's a lot of study and hard work as it is! 

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2 hours ago, Mr Tinman said:

This is the problem with the modern ALP

They tell people what they want rather then asking them what they would like 

As I said before, ask No Coal Joel  how that worked for him 

Exactly this, and then when they lose they insult people's intelligence. For a group who are supposed to represent the working class they sure have become smug and elitist 

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5 hours ago, trinube said:

They had enough people pushing it for them. ACTU, Getup, Teachers' Union, Nurses, Drs, CFMEU etc

Trouble is the CFMEU was at odds with Getup, ACTU has just gone completely off the reservation under Sally having her own personal class war and most of the other unions are too busy being at odds with the party unless they can guarantee 6%+ increases and doubling of numbers

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12 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

But can you really get a pension if you have $1.3M and are getting $70K income? I might be in for an easier life than I thought in retirement.

No.. but if they take your franking credits you will be :)

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12 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

I voted lnp

 

but as facts are not popular here

 

https://www.alp.org.au/other/dividend-imputation-credits/

Interesting read.... just goes to show that no one in the Labor Party knew there own policy and if they did certainly did not know how to sell it.

Lets call it complacency of there part.

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9 hours ago, Parkside said:

Hit old Tone up for a loan. He's on $300K pension (indexed with pollies pay rises) for life, plus the business class golden ticket). Good going for a northern beaches battler.

Fully deserved too I might add. 

Edited by IronmanFoz
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2 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

Fully deserved too I might add. 

I agree. Some of the old pollie pensions were over the top, but I think ex-PM's should be looked after.

No matter how big an embarrassment they were.

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39 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I agree. Some of the old pollie pensions were over the top, but I think ex-PM's should be looked after.

No matter how big an embarrassment they were.

Further to add. That whole pollie pension thing needs to be reviewed in some way. When u you guys who are in there 20's and gets two terms and is out by the time he's 30...they should not get a life time pension. I can't recall the persons name but there has been a couple.

Like most things I feel it should be on longevity and contribution to society.... but how do they measure that.

Am not sure any of them deserve the ongoing office, PA's, driver's etc etc etc.

Edited by IronmanFoz
Typos

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13 hours ago, nealo said:

Interesting reading.

Whether I agree or disagree with this particular policy one thing I'd like to see is phased changes of policy.

What I mean, in this particular example, it was to be introduced in 6 weeks time. This could have major economic impacts to some people. People need to have time to readjust their investments etc. Both side implement dramatic change often after elections and it shits me.

yes, i think thats why they were grand fathering everything if elected so it affected nobody.  if you did you were still the same, if you never have done, you were still the same.

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11 hours ago, Parkside said:

My point overall is, I would hate to go down the US pathway of tuition fees. We met a 30 year old primary school teacher in the States waiting tables 5 nights a week because he had to pay off his student loan. He had a wife and baby at home. This is working harder according to the obtuse politicians. This is shit in my book.

yes, education is still very cheap in australia compared to the US.   same as i wouldnt want to get sick in america without insurance.

we might have a liberal govt but we still have a lot of socialist ideals in this country, whether university fees, govt payments to schools, the pbs, medicare, health insurance subsidies, franking credits when you pay no tax, pensions, council rate discounts, car rego discounts, senior discounts, tollway rebates, first home buyer welfare and on and on it goes.

Edited by Oompa Loompa

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53 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

we might have a liberal govt but we still have a lot of socialist ideals in this country, whether university fees, govt payments to schools, the pbs, medicare, health insurance subsidies, franking credits when you pay no tax, pensions, council rate discounts, car rego discounts, senior discounts, tollway rebates, first home buyer welfare and on and on it goes.

What we have in this country is an aging population that is getting bigger and bigger and for the size of the country we lack the number of people who can pay sufficient taxes to sustain it. This is why out taxes are high compared to a lot of smaller countries with larger populations.

Look at Singapore tax rate is between 10 -20 % depending on your income etc (give or take). There population is 1/5 of ours, Yet the country is 10764 times smaller. What this means is lower tax rates....  because there government don't have to maintain a country that is 4000km wide etc....lots of roads.

We need more people....but how do you get more people who are working and pay tax and not residing in major cities. Not an easy task for either government. but what we don't want is more people on hand outs!

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On 10/05/2019 at 9:09 PM, IronmanFoz said:

Will we see a "Transitions" party at the next election. It's clear we have all the answers. We will no doubt handle all of Australia's problems first and then if we get time we will make any "Active Fee" for triathlon races illegal.

FP, Rimmer, TC and myself will get busy with sorting Brexit in the meantime ;)

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2 hours ago, monkie said:

FP, Rimmer, TC and myself will get busy with sorting Brexit in the meantime ;)

What shall we do after lunch? :confused1:

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Seems Bill can't keep his nose out of leadership contests. It's reported he's  been ringing around dissing both Albo and Bowen and trying to get someone from Victoria up. He back-stabbed a couple of previous leaders and  now can't accept he's not still in charge. Probably thinks if he can get a Victorian leader he can be the puppet master.

This bloke has zero integrity - Australia dodged a bullet. Piss off and let the party decide on their own.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/it-s-weird-bill-shorten-stuns-colleagues-as-he-lobbies-against-anthony-albanese-20190521-p51pni.html

Edited by trinube

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25 minutes ago, trinube said:

Seems Bill can't keep his nose out of leadership contests. It's reported he's  been ringing around dissing both Albo and Bowen and trying to get someone from Victoria up. He back-stabbed a couple of previous leaders and  now can't accept he's not still in charge. Probably thinks if he can get a Victorian leader he can be the puppet master.

This bloke has zero integrity - Australia dodged a bullet. Piss off and let the party decide on their own.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/it-s-weird-bill-shorten-stuns-colleagues-as-he-lobbies-against-anthony-albanese-20190521-p51pni.html

He's actually doing Labor a favour by opposing Albo.  But seriously, where's his self awareness? 

By the time the next election rolls around, the coalition will have been in power for 20 of the past 26 years.  Which would have been 23 if two conservative electorates were not betrayed by their members in 2010

If you want to stretch that out even further Bill,  go for it 

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11 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Further to add. That whole pollie pension thing needs to be reviewed in some way. When u you guys who are in there 20's and gets two terms and is out by the time he's 30...they should not get a life time pension. I can't recall the persons name but there has been a couple.

 

Not any more Foz, the current scheme doesn't permit that. Changed in 2004 thanks to Latham forcing Howard into a corner, perhaps the only decent thing Latham ever accomplished. 

You could be thinking of ex Nationals Senator Bill O'Chee. In the 90's he did about 9 years in the Senate, appointed without an election at the age of 24 to replace a retiring Nationals Senator.  He retired on a pension and perks at 34 years and through a loophole in the old parliamentary pension scheme left his wife and handicapped son with nothing when he divorced her. After dabbling in Skeleton and Bobsled he’s now know worldwide a one of Wikileaks supergrasses.

 

 

Edited by Mike Del

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36 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

You could be thinking of ex Nationals Senator Bill O'Chee. In the 90's he did about 9 years in the Senate, appointed without an election at the age of 24 to replace a retiring Nationals Senator.  He retired on a pension and perks at 34 years 

Contrast this with Ted Mack who deliberately resigned from parliament two days before his pension entitlements kicked in. We need more Ted Macks.

"Shortly after his 1988 victory, he abruptly retired from all of his offices. He did so just two days short of serving seven years in parliament, which would have made him eligible for parliamentary pension entitlements in excess of $1,000,000. Mack had always taken a dim view of what he perceived as the excesses of public political office, and decided to retire in protest."

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11 hours ago, trinube said:

Contrast this with Ted Mack who deliberately resigned from parliament two days before his pension entitlements kicked in. We need more Ted Macks.

"Shortly after his 1988 victory, he abruptly retired from all of his offices. He did so just two days short of serving seven years in parliament, which would have made him eligible for parliamentary pension entitlements in excess of $1,000,000. Mack had always taken a dim view of what he perceived as the excesses of public political office, and decided to retire in protest."

Wouldn't that trigger a bi election then? And shortly after they'd just had an election.  I thought one of those would cost at least the $1m he wanted to save the taxpayers

Edited by Mike Del
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On 21/05/2019 at 8:19 AM, Ex-Hasbeen said:

But can you really get a pension if you have $1.3M and are getting $70K income? I might be in for an easier life than I thought in retirement.

You would pass the income test, but fail the assets test at those levels as I understand it.

Not eligible for any aged pension if you have assets of $853K or more, and/or income of $80,506.40 per yr.

Asset test will knock us out of receiving any Aged Pension as our Super balances will count as assets as I understand it.

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Sorry for my rant the other day!  Clearly I needed a time out.

IJ, it wasn't directed at you, in case you were wondering?  Only my comment regarding what I'd done, in case you happened to ask me what experience I had of that.

Yes, I've read a lot of this stuff on Facebook, even from people I highly respect (or did anyway).  But I read a comment from someone here that Labor's policies attacked the very people that had worked hard to make something of themselves and saved etc, and we know Labor's policies would go after higher incomes.  It was a final straw after the crap I'd been reading on Facebook.

I'll pull my head in.

Edit to add: I know nothing was directed at me.  I just blew when I read that sentiment again.

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27 minutes ago, goughy said:

 

IJ, it wasn't directed at you, in case you were wondering?  Only my comment regarding what I'd done, in case you happened to ask me what experience I had of that

Nothing to apologise to me for mate. As I said at the time, I was just looking to clarify your position, which you did.  There was no malice on either side

The only reason there was any drama is that someone else decided to get offended on your behalf

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1 hour ago, goughy said:

But I read a comment from someone here that Labor's policies attacked the very people that had worked hard to make something of themselves and saved etc, and we know Labor's policies would go after higher incomes. 

I think most people who've done OK for themselves think it's reasonable to pay a bit more. They already pay more in income tax but they're often seen as fair game for additional taxes.

I'm not talking people making > $250K, I'm talking people with incomes around that $90-100K mark which Labor thinks is wealthy. In 2018, the average weekly full time wage was $82,436. The tiered tax system already belts the very high income earners and bracket creep just pushes average earners closer and closer to higher tax.

The best thing ANY government can do is offer incentives for people to earn more. This is not giving them money for nothing. It's cheap or free education so you can get a better job, apprenticeships so you can make decent money as a tradie, business growth so there can be more employment, more opportunity for advancement, new industries and infrastructure.

I tire of people saying wealth is bad. I want to be well off and comfortable in retirement. I don't have a uni degree. I left school and started work. I worked extra jobs and learned new skills. I averaged 50 hours a week for years to get my first home.

I'm proud of where I am and how I've gotten here. It pisses me when people want to go "let's belt this guy" because I've worked my arse off my whole life to get what we have.

Edit to say none of this is directed at Goughy and I didn't mean it to sound like a rant...

Edited by trinube
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On 18/05/2019 at 11:51 AM, more said:

I hope Shorten loses just because of the arrogant way he is strutting around as if it's already won. A bit of humility goes a long way...

Lol what was I saying about the arrogance of Labor?

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/free-beers-fancy-cocktails-and-a-lavish-slap-up-dinner-inside-labors-pre-election-party-as-they-toasted-victory-only-to-suffer-a-humiliating-defeat-in-election-stunner/ar-AABG2Np

"Labor was so sure it had victory in the bag that party headquarters in Sydney threw a huge election eve party with free booze and prawns galore.

They celebrated late into the night drinking salted caramel espresso martinis and singing Solidarity Forever with one staffer even hired to play the trumpet.The jubilant mood was the polar opposite of their somber, shell-shocked faces just 24 hours later after a stunning election defeat. 

Labor's premature partying is now an embarrassing symbol of its hubris and complacency based on polls that got the result horribly wrong.Celebrations began with free beers in the Parramatta HQ office, then dinner at nearby Sahra by the River, according to emails seen by the Sydney Morning Herald. Staffers ate Queensland prawns costing $39 for just four pieces, barramundi at $34 a serving, and kafta skewers at $28 for three."

And then you had Bill asking Scomo for a smooth transition of power...bwhahahahahh

"Labor leader Bill Shorten is so confident of becoming Australia's next Prime Minister that he sent a letter to Scott Morrison asking for a 'smooth transition of power'. "

All I can say is they got what they deserved. Smug, condescending and arrogant...and NFI

 

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The party is OTT, but the succession planning stuff seems reasonable. 

Would also be fine for the PMs office to have declined at 8:30 Sat night 

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On 31/07/2013 at 7:20 AM, Andrew #1 said:

Sigh... Facts don't matter - LNP are born to rule. What!

Just going to leave this one here to stew...

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If you’re a full-time worker and you earn more than $1261 a week (before tax and superannuation) then you are earning more than half of all other workers, aged 15 years and older. This equates to $65,577 a year.

Median as opposed to average

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The best thing ANY government can do is offer incentives for people to earn more. This is not giving them money for nothing. It's cheap or free education so you can get a better job, apprenticeships so you can make decent money as a tradie, business growth so there can be more employment, more opportunity for advancement, new industries and infrastructure.

So true, probably the best way to get a more level playing field is sorting out education.  But I am not holding my breath.   Mind you there are still a lot that get to start out way back behind the rest from the earliest days.

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2 hours ago, more said:

Staffers ate Queensland prawns costing $39 for just four pieces, barramundi at $34 a serving, and kafta skewers at $28 for three.

Sounds like a regular city price, although that Barra seems a bit cheap 😎😎

 

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2 hours ago, more said:

LAnd then you had Bill asking Scomo for a smooth transition of power...bwhahahahahh

"Labor leader Bill Shorten is so confident of becoming Australia's next Prime Minister that he sent a letter to Scott Morrison asking for a 'smooth transition of power'. "

All I can say is they got what they deserved. Smug, condescending and arrogant...and NFI

 

Alot of people didn't know Morrison was hitting the phones every night, talking directly to voters. After the lib robo calls, people were asked to stay on the line to talk to the PM. He then answered questions from voters.

Pretty good in my books. 

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4 hours ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

You would pass the income test, but fail the assets test at those levels as I understand it.

Not eligible for any aged pension if you have assets of $853K or more, and/or income of $80,506.40 per yr.

Asset test will knock us out of receiving any Aged Pension as our Super balances will count as assets as I understand it.

In this respect, you can see why more people are chosing to 'retire' out of Australia. Even some are still getting pension and living abroad. Cost of living is much lower and places like Thailand have very good medical resources.

Retirement is becoming more of a myth. I'm 56 and will return home in my early 60's. By then I'd have worked as an expat for 30 years, with reasonable assets and some savings. However, it won't allow me not to work again. I can see myself packing shelves at Woolies to keep petrol in the car and food in the fridge in between surfs and dropping a line in the river.

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10 minutes ago, softy said:

In this respect, you can see why more people are chosing to 'retire' out of Australia. Even some are still getting pension and living abroad. Cost of living is much lower and places like Thailand have very good medical resources.

Retirement is becoming more of a myth. I'm 56 and will return home in my early 60's. By then I'd have worked as an expat for 30 years, with reasonable assets and some savings. However, it won't allow me not to work again. I can see myself packing shelves at Woolies to keep petrol in the car and food in the fridge in between surfs and dropping a line in the river.

Work harder get better job

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1 hour ago, BarryBevan said:

Work harder get better job

What does that mean?

For any kind of decent retirement , I reckon you need to own your house and have between 2 and 3 million in investments and super to generate an income of $60-80k per year. If you reckon you can do it cheaper than that, good luck. Tell me if you're in that position with your better job and harder work.

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11 minutes ago, softy said:

What does that mean?

For any kind of decent retirement , I reckon you need to own your house and have between 2 and 3 million in investments and super to generate an income of $60-80k per year. If you reckon you can do it cheaper than that, good luck. Tell me if you're in that position with your better job and harder work.

He's referring to Joe Hockey and co giving a similar response in the past, tongue firmly in cheek on Barry's part I'm sure.

By the way, the Barefoot Investor reckons $250K in super and a desire to work part time (up to the limit not to effect the pension) with your own home paid off is the magical retirement number.

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20 minutes ago, softy said:

What does that mean?

For any kind of decent retirement , I reckon you need to own your house and have between 2 and 3 million in investments and super to generate an income of $60-80k per year. If you reckon you can do it cheaper than that, good luck. Tell me if you're in that position with your better job and harder work.

$80K a year is a hell of a lot of money to be spending with no mortgage to pay or child raising related expenses? 

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12 minutes ago, softy said:

What does that mean?

For any kind of decent retirement , I reckon you need to own your house and have between 2 and 3 million in investments and super to generate an income of $60-80k per year. If you reckon you can do it cheaper than that, good luck. Tell me if you're in that position with your better job and harder work.

I'd have to ask why you need 80k a year in tax free income when you own your own home and have no dependents. That's $1500 a week. 

Studies have shown that the most important thing is to own your own home. The pension is doable if you have no accommodation expenses. 

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28 minutes ago, softy said:

What does that mean?

For any kind of decent retirement , I reckon you need to own your house and have between 2 and 3 million in investments and super to generate an income of $60-80k per year. If you reckon you can do it cheaper than that, good luck. Tell me if you're in that position with your better job and harder work.

That’s what ironjim and his mates say.

yes I will own house

income will be over 100

worked hard

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My numbers are based on what I know my wife pays to keep the house going ( things I have no idea about ). The costs of rates, insurances, power, fuel, food, phone etc. I think the last numbers were around $1800 per month.

Add to this the cost of being comfortable - travel, stuff for grandchildren, racing, actually living a nice life after working your arse off.

I am also assuming I won't receive any pension, so the numbers may be high. But I still reckon you need to be getting at least $5k per month in.

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5 minutes ago, softy said:

My numbers are based on what I know my wife pays to keep the house going ( things I have no idea about ). The costs of rates, insurances, power, fuel, food, phone etc. I think the last numbers were around $1800 per month.

Add to this the cost of being comfortable - travel, stuff for grandchildren, racing, actually living a nice life after working your arse off.

I am also assuming I won't receive any pension, so the numbers may be high. But I still reckon you need to be getting at least $5k per month in.

So you are allowing $58k a year for travel and racing, recovering in business class would be nice 😎👌

Edited by more

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41 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

That’s what ironjim and his mates say.

yes I will own house

income will be over 100

worked hard

I can speak for myself thanks Barry

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