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Wonder how many of the regular hosts on "The Project" are going to call in sick tonight rather than discuss the election?

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1 hour ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

And then there's ex Cwlth public servants like my SIL who have one of those 'won the lottery' defined benefit pensions (80% of your highest salary level for life, spouse gets 50% if you die) - probably around $55-60K pa indexed to the CPI, lives in mansion in Noosa, and has been told by her financial adviser she will soon qualify for the aged pension!

Unbelievable.

They restructure my area, put me in a subsidiary company, then brought us back in a year later. Because of that I had to leave the defined benefit scheme & enter an accumulation fund. This was 3 month before the start of the GFC. I've worked out this cost me around $400,000 in my Super Fund.

Bastards.

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32 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

They restructure my area, put me in a subsidiary company, then brought us back in a year later. Because of that I had to leave the defined benefit scheme & enter an accumulation fund. This was 3 month before the start of the GFC. I've worked out this cost me around $400,000 in my Super Fund.

Bastards.

Cwlth public service?

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This is the problem with the left-they are so smug and have such a superiority complex that when they lose they cant help but lash out calling everyone 'dumb' for not voting in who they wanted...and they continue to think insulting people is the way to get them onside??? Just NFI..

"‘Australians are dumb’: Celebs’ fury at Scott Morrison federal election win"

https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/australians-are-dumb-celebs-fury-at-scott-morrison-federal-election-win/news-story/8392a4c2d8540d0c895808896c61409d

 

Edited by more
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This is the problem with the left-they are so smug and have such a superiority complex that when they lose they cant help but lash out calling everyone 'dumb' for not voting in who they wanted...and they continue to think insulting people is the way to get them onside??? Just NFI..

"‘Australians are dumb’: Celebs’ fury at Scott Morrison federal election win"

Jeez have you ever listened to Alan Jones?

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21 minutes ago, symo said:

Jeez have you ever listened to Alan Jones?

And that is the worst outcome of last night. Jones isn't retiring.

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At least they are finally picking up on this link  Polling is so far behind the way society has moved.  Good book on this is "Everyone Lies"

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9 hours ago, goughy said:

I just wanna say this once then I'll leave it alone.  But there really is a sentimentality coming that all people who have great incomes, say that 90k/year or more are all hard workers who have sacrificed to get there.  And if you're not well off, you don't want it enough and don't work hard enough.  I really find this an appalling opinion, and I just can't understand where it comes from?  But every time you put a piece of trash in the bin at a shopping centre, someone has to empty it for you!  Every time you take a shit in their toilets, someone has to eventually clean that toilet!  Are you gonna do it?  Are you gonna pay someone 100k to do it?  Why don't you find the cleaner the next time you're at a Westfield and you tell them they just don't want it enough and aren't trying enough!

And before IJ asks me, yes, I have done this!  For 18 months, 7 days a week.  Not everyone will reach the heights of everyone else.  If we all did, I bet this country wouldn't survive.  But this elitist attitude, or whatever it is, that because your doing well then you must be better than those that aren't, is just crap.

I do work for wealthy people, and for people who aren't as well off.  I'm about to do a job for one of the wealthiest families in town.  You know how much I charged them; the same as I do for everyone else!  Because wealthy or not, we're all the same people.  No one is any better than anyone else because of money.  I know well off people who are absolute piece of shit self centred wankers, and I know well off people who are the absolute salt of the earth.  The same goes for the less wealthy people I know.

And if you want to think that I have an attitude problem about wealthier people, well out of all my friends here, there wouldn't be one whose family income is less than triple what ours is!  Most would be much higher than that.  Not one of those people think less of me because of it, and I don't covert what they have.  I love my family and I would, and do do everything I can for them.  That is all I need in life.

I’ve yet to see anyone on here look down on low income earners, not sure where that’s coming from? I have seen plenty of comments about people that work in corporates that somehow don’t earn an ‘honest living’. ( usually by the self employed types).

Come a walk a mile in my corporate ‘easy street’ shoes ( or Ex’) then you’ll have a shiny new definition of the word ‘stress’. Swinging a hammer and lifting shit is exhausting but here’s a newsflash, so is constantly dealing with demand, performance and SLT gymnastics.

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33 minutes ago, FatPom said:

I’ve yet to see anyone on here look down on low income earners, not sure where that’s coming from? I have seen plenty of comments about people that work in corporates that somehow don’t earn an ‘honest living’. ( usually by the self employed types).

I think Goughy is referring to outside of here as well. At my local "Meet the Candidates, a young guy asked the LNP member how a young person is supposed to afford a new house under the negative gearing policy that favours investors & pushes prices continually up. He  said you have to work harder.

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17 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I think Goughy is referring to outside of here as well. At my local "Meet the Candidates, a young guy asked the LNP member how a young person is supposed to afford a new house under the negative gearing policy that favours investors & pushes prices continually up. He  said you have to work harder.

Wait, isn't Dutton your local? What the heck kind of an answer is that from a minister!? 

 

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5 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I think Goughy is referring to outside of here as well. At my local "Meet the Candidates, a young guy asked the LNP member how a young person is supposed to afford a new house under the negative gearing policy that favours investors & pushes prices continually up. He  said you have to work harder.

Ah I see. I’ve heard this ‘ work harder’  statement before but yet to hear how it actually works.  If you’re a trade I guess you can work more hours. If you’re on piece work, then work faster ( but robots do that now).

If you’re in corporate, the opportunities to worker are forced on you everyday however, the opportunity to turn that harder work into more money is scarce.  There is always ‘process’ that may be once a year, so you work you ass off, achieve 115% of target, then find out that performance in some country you can’t find on a map has dragged the group score down and then you find yourself re-applying for job.

Working harder, it’s as simple as that.:lol:

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36 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I think Goughy is referring to outside of here as well. At my local "Meet the Candidates, a young guy asked the LNP member how a young person is supposed to afford a new house under the negative gearing policy that favours investors & pushes prices continually up. He  said you have to work harder.

Why do people think working harder is a bad idea? 

When I bought my first place interest rates were 17.25%. There was no first home owners benefits and to get a loan you had to beg to your bank manager. I was earning bugger all and worked a second job to raise the deposit. My parents were poor and could offer me no assistance. I scrapped and saved and it took years to start to see the light.

News flash to millenials - sometimes life is hard and you have to work harder if you want to get ahead. No-one is forcing you to buy a house but if you want to then expect it to be difficult - as it was for your parents.

For the record, I have 2 millennials living under my roof.

 

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34 minutes ago, FatPom said:

 

If you’re in corporate, the opportunities to worker are forced on you everyday however, the opportunity to turn that harder work into more money is scarce.  There is always ‘process’ that may be once a year, so you work you ass off, achieve 115% of target, then find out that performance in some country you can’t find on a map has dragged the group score down and then you find yourself re-applying for job.

 

Or as many companies now do, find the aforementioned country that you can't find on a map, hire the locals for 1/6th of your wage and give you a redundancy

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3 hours ago, more said:

And this is why Newscorp can't be trusted.  Fake news if ever seen.  I'm not afraid to call them out for this and the false reporting:

 

Jane Caro and Meshel Laurie are not celebrities.  Come on Donald, where's the tweet calling this one out?

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39 minutes ago, FatPom said:

Ah I see. I’ve heard this ‘ work harder’  statement before but yet to hear how it actually works.  If you’re a trade I guess you can work more hours. If you’re on piece work, then work faster ( but robots do that now).

If you’re in corporate, the opportunities to worker are forced on you everyday however, the opportunity to turn that harder work into more money is scarce.  There is always ‘process’ that may be once a year, so you work you ass off, achieve 115% of target, then find out that performance in some country you can’t find on a map has dragged the group score down and then you find yourself re-applying for job.

Working harder, it’s as simple as that.:lol:

Totally agree FP....... how often do you hear the line.......”due to current economic climate........blah blah blah” being the reason for no salary increase or no/reduced bonus.... even when they have turned a massive bonus.

And the phrase work harder is a cop out. And just because someone gets paid heaps does not mean they work harder.

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11 hours ago, goughy said:

I just wanna say this once then I'll leave it alone.  But there really is a sentimentality coming that all people who have great incomes, say that 90k/year or more are all hard workers who have sacrificed to get there.  And if you're not well off, you don't want it enough and don't work hard enough.  I really find this an appalling opinion, and I just can't understand where it comes from?  But every time you put a piece of trash in the bin at a shopping centre, someone has to empty it for you!  Every time you take a shit in their toilets, someone has to eventually clean that toilet!  Are you gonna do it?  Are you gonna pay someone 100k to do it?  Why don't you find the cleaner the next time you're at a Westfield and you tell them they just don't want it enough and aren't trying enough!

A lot of people aren't going to like this but sometimes I feel the need to drop a truth bomb.

One of my favourite show growing up was Kung Fu. Once day grasshopper was looking for work and was apologetically offered shovelling shit from a barn. He shrugged and said "all work is honourable". I've always remembered it and tell my kids regularly when they have to do things they prefer not to. My first job was pumping petrol for 70c an hour. The first task every day was cleaning the toilets. There's nothing wrong with these jobs BUT there is no reason to keep doing it the rest of your life.

Ironman is a good analogy for low paid jobs - there'll be people who just do the minimum and are happy to finish in 17 hours. They never aspire to do more training or get faster, they just find their niche and plod. Jobs can be the same. There are people in low skilled, process jobs who never aspire to do anything else. They don't want to get further educated, they don't want to excel at what they're doing, they don't look for other work or take a risk at a career change - they just want to do the minimum they can and get a cheque at the end of the week. I have no issue with this until they expect to get above CPI pay rises without offering something in return. Like it or not, these jobs are low paying for a reason and it doesn't make economic sense to pay more for it.

The genius of the Hawke/Keating Accord was the productivity trade off. Anyone could get a pay rise if they demonstrated improved productivity. Everyone won. Workers got paid more, businesses made more profit and the government got more tax. I want  every worker to make as much as they possibly can but that requires people to extend themselves. Rather than disparaging people for growing wealth, we should be actively encouraging people to aspire to wealth. Welfare should be a safety net, not a retirement plan.

One of Labor's failings is its demonisation of 'the big end of town'. Yes, there are some prick businesses, but these highly profitable bastards employ hundreds of thousands of people and earn their shareholders billions of dollars. And guess where a large percentage of that goes? Super funds which are making considerable sums for the same low paid people Labor is supposed to be representing.

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2 minutes ago, Cottoneyes said:

And this is why Newscorp can't be trusted.  Fake news if ever seen.  I'm not afraid to call them out for this and the false reporting: Jane Caro and Meshel Laurie are not celebrities.

:lol:

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2 hours ago, FatPom said:

I’ve yet to see anyone on here look down on low income earners, not sure where that’s coming from?

I certainly don't look down on them - I was one for a long time. I do however believe that Australia is a great place for people to be able to extract themselves from this position.

Edited by trinube
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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

how a young person is supposed to afford a new house under the negative gearing policy that favours investors & pushes prices continually up. 

A funny thing I read about a week ago. A Labor supporter was berating the Liberals because house prices have dropped 10% in the past 12 months. I'm still not entirely sure what their position is. Do they want record high prices where everyone feels great because they have decent equity or do they want prices low so they're affordable for anyone (which, ironically, would eventually create upward pressure on prices as people come into the market)? 

I'm absolutely convinced it was nothing more than simply wanting any reason to hate on the Libs.

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52 minutes ago, trinube said:

Why do people think working harder is a bad idea? 

It’s not a bad idea, it just isn’t the answer to addressing systemic issues and disadvantages that many people face. 

 

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8 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I think Goughy is referring to outside of here as well. At my local "Meet the Candidates, a young guy asked the LNP member how a young person is supposed to afford a new house under the negative gearing policy that favours investors & pushes prices continually up. He  said you have to work harder.

 did anyone correct the young guy that this may not be why he can't  afford a house? I would think the deposit is more likely the reason. But definitely a poor thing to say. 

Potato head seems like he isn't all over it.  

 

Edited by Prince

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10 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Pretty disappointed that Bob Hawke didn’t hang around a few more days to see Shortin lose the unloseable.

Nothing worse than a poor winner.

Here’s a guy who both sides of politics honoured this week in his passing, recognising without party lines, his achievements and ability to bring all aussies together and you go and get childish after your team has won. How old are you?

time and place dude, clearly not your strong suite.

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5 hours ago, Leon said:

Nothing worse than a poor winner.

Here’s a guy who both sides of politics honoured this week in his passing, recognising without party lines, his achievements and ability to bring all aussies together and you go and get childish after your team has won. How old are you?

time and place dude, clearly not your strong suite.

You missed the point! Nothing to do with Bobs achievements etc which was many and I think we all acknowledge that..... it’s just that I despise Shorten so much and would love to have Bob see him for what he is.

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10 hours ago, FatPom said:

I’ve yet to see anyone on here look down on low income earners, not sure where that’s coming from? I have seen plenty of comments about people that work in corporates that somehow don’t earn an ‘honest living’. ( usually by the self employed types).

Come a walk a mile in my corporate ‘easy street’ shoes ( or Ex’) then you’ll have a shiny new definition of the word ‘stress’. Swinging a hammer and lifting shit is exhausting but here’s a newsflash, so is constantly dealing with demand, performance and SLT gymnastics.

and in the same vein, try being self employed and having pricks delaying paying you, the mortgage payment is due, the credit card is maxed and the cupboard is empty.

 

It swings both ways mate 🙂

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2 minutes ago, Mr Tinman said:

and in the same vein, try being self employed and having pricks delaying paying you, the mortgage payment is due, the credit card is maxed and the cupboard is empty.

 

It swings both ways mate 🙂

How is that related to working harder?

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19 minutes ago, FatPom said:

How is that related to working harder?

I think tin man is meaning each job has significant pressures, stress and demands. it is impossible to compare job responsibilities and who works harder and who deserves more, but equally in my opinion you can't necessarily blame the government if you don't have enough money or can't afford to get into the housing market.

 I guess you have to have some responsibility. we all hear of stories how our parents did it so tough, mine did, so my dad created his own opportunities to earn more, he didn't wait for his wage to go up or tax cuts or first home buyers assistance. So maybe potato's comment has some merit. 

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12 hours ago, symo said:

Jeez have you ever listened to Alan Jones?

Have you?

Of the snippets of Jones that I've seen on Sky over the past few weeks, what he has actually been saying is that Australians don't like their intelligence being insulted by someone who can't (or more likely doesn't want to) tell them how much his radical socialist agenda is going to cost

The leftist media was rather amusing to read yesterday, full of "wow, nobody saw this coming" pieces.  Which shows they have absolutely no idea what the conservative commentators they despise so much are actually saying

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21 hours ago, goughy said:

And if you want to think that I have an attitude problem about wealthier people, well out of all my friends here, there wouldn't be one whose family income is less than triple what ours is!  Most would be much higher than that.  Not one of those people think less of me because of it, and I don't covert what they have.  I love my family and I would, and do do everything I can for them.  That is all I need in life.

 

11 hours ago, FatPom said:

I’ve yet to see anyone on here look down on low income earners, not sure where that’s coming from?

I don't think that's what he was saying about here??

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11 hours ago, trinube said:

A funny thing I read about a week ago. A Labor supporter was berating the Liberals because house prices have dropped 10% in the past 12 months. I'm still not entirely sure what their position is.

And that is the problem with both sides hose prices go up, the party in power says we are increasing your wealth, the opposition says its becoming unaffordable. 

House prices go down: Govt says we are working to make it affordable, opposition says you are sending mortgage strapped battlers to the wall. 

They both try and take points out of something that in little old Aust. is greatly out of their control. 

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9 hours ago, Cottoneyes said:

And this is why Newscorp can't be trusted.  Fake news if ever seen.  I'm not afraid to call them out for this and the false reporting:

 

Jane Caro and Meshel Laurie are not celebrities.  Come on Donald, where's the tweet calling this one out?

Don't worry, she has woken up to find people have been mean back and scored an article in the age claiming she is a victim of mean people. :bangin:

https://www.theage.com.au/federal-election-2019/an-election-tweet-a-barrage-of-abuse-in-response-a-plea-for-civility-20190519-p51p13.html

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Have you?

Unfortunately, occasionally yes - are you telling me he doesn't insult the intelligence of anyone he doesn't like, you may need to listen to a bit more of his radio show.  Your snippets may not be giving you enough of a picture.

Edited by symo

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I know what Goughy is getting at in his post. After being made redundant at the age of 55yo and getting very little payout, and not being able to get a job in my trade, I managed to get a job in a hospital as a wards man and porter. I have seen the best and worst in human behaviour from patients and staff. I have also witnessed contempt, abuse, racism and sexism towards the lower paid staff. Cleaners, kitchen staff, wards man etc. would be earning around the $20-23 an hour and a lot of them are, like me at the time, under employed, uni students or just normal hard working people trying to pay the bills. To be told to work harder or get a better job by smug politicians, like Joe Hockey is an insult.

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50 minutes ago, fiftyplus said:

 smug politicians, like Joe Hockey

One of my per hates is hearing about Uni Fees from politicians who went through Uni for free. One of the best things we could do to promote people into better jobs is to offer them free higher education.

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12 hours ago, FatPom said:

Come a walk a mile in my corporate ‘easy street’ shoes ( or Ex’) then you’ll have a shiny new definition of the word ‘stress’. Swinging a hammer and lifting shit is exhausting but here’s a newsflash, so is constantly dealing with demand, performance and SLT gymnastics.

 

2 hours ago, Mr Tinman said:

and in the same vein, try being self employed and having pricks delaying paying you, the mortgage payment is due, the credit card is maxed and the cupboard is empty.🙂

You're both right.

All jobs have greater and lesser stresses - they just come in different forms. I work in a deadline industry and a couple of times a week the stress is incredible. It's not Multi-million dollar win/lose type stress, but it's stress none-the-less. I can appreciate you both have considerable stresses in your jobs, even through they might be polls apart in function.

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19 minutes ago, trinube said:

One of my per hates is hearing about Uni Fees from politicians who went through Uni for free.

+1 including TAFE fees and Tax evasion.

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1 hour ago, roxii said:

And that is the problem with both sides house prices go up, the party in power says we are increasing your wealth, the opposition says its becoming unaffordable. House prices go down: Govt says we are working to make it affordable, opposition says you are sending mortgage strapped battlers to the wall.

Exactly, and they'll both offer hand outs to first home buyers which automatically translates into the same amount being added to the price of a home. They'd be far better off negotiating with the States to lower stamp duty - one of the most mind numbingly stupid and extraordinarily profitable taxes known to man. While they're at it, maybe discuss the rate of the GST.

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2 hours ago, roxii said:

 

They both try and take points out of something that in little old Aust. is greatly out of their control. 

Agree, House prices you would think are out of their control.

I am happy with a government if  they create opportunities for someone to get ahead, assist those who are really struggling (so many don't even have a roof to sleep under), let alone buying their first house, and make sure those who do 'work harder' are rewarded and not penalised. i guess the rest is up to us, . The rest is up to the individual. 

I myself wish they would let people tap into their super for their first home, I do get jealous though that everything is for 'the first home buyer'. I think if you don't own a house, you should also be allowed to access our super to live in a house. I can't get a house and don't qualify for first home buyers as i had one when i was married but the divorce and subsequent house sale put me in debt  I don't know what that could do to the market though. 

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20 minutes ago, Prince said:

Agree, House prices you would think are out of their control.

I am happy with a government if  they create opportunities for someone to get ahead, assist those who are really struggling (so many don't even have a roof to sleep under), let alone buying their first house, and make sure those who do 'work harder' are rewarded and not penalised. i guess the rest is up to us, . The rest is up to the individual. 

I myself wish they would let people tap into their super for their first home, I do get jealous though that everything is for 'the first home buyer'. I think if you don't own a house, you should also be allowed to access our super to live in a house. I can't get a house and don't qualify for first home buyers as i had one when i was married but the divorce and subsequent house sale put me in debt  I don't know what that could do to the market though. 

I think the greater issue is not a supply of money issue, but a supply of housing. If you allow access to super you just push up prices from the increased money supply. There are only two real ways to fix housing affordability - lower demand or increase supply. Everything else just distorts the market. 

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1 hour ago, trinube said:

Exactly, and they'll both offer hand outs to first home buyers which automatically translates into the same amount being added to the price of a home. They'd be far better off negotiating with the States to lower stamp duty - one of the most mind numbingly stupid and extraordinarily profitable taxes known to man. While they're at it, maybe discuss the rate of the GST.

stamp duty is evil. 

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4 hours ago, FatPom said:

How is that related to working harder?

As Prince says, their is almost always more to every job than one can see with a quick look at what others do.

just because I’m on the tools doesn’t mean I don’t have other pressure to deal with being self employed 

At least your pay is in your account every payday without you having to chase it up

I can’t always say the same thing 

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12 hours ago, Tyno said:

It’s not a bad idea, it just isn’t the answer to addressing systemic issues and disadvantages that many people face. 

It's not the answer to everything, but it certainly helps. Genuinely disadvantaged people rely on governments to have sensible policies which promote equality and provide sustainable and adequate safety nets.

More importantly, there needs to be processes in place to eliminate the reason they were disadvantaged in the first place. No point treating the symptoms without treating the cause.

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I think what we can clearly establish is that whether you are rich, well off, comfortable, struggling or poor nobody likes to be told that the way they are living their life is something that they should be ashamed of.  Most of us are simply trying to do the best we can for ourselves and our families and nobody wants to be told they should feel guilty for that.  The unpredicted results that we have seen in the U.S. and now Australian elections is a sign of this, the private thoughts are no longer spoken because of the simplistic labels used to belittle them.  

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I've gotta say, I didnt think our country was this close in voting.

image.png.aa1982b275710d0eab0ee7ed39a25f58.png

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3 hours ago, trinube said:

One of my per hates is hearing about Uni Fees from politicians who went through Uni for free. One of the best things we could do to promote people into better jobs is to offer them free higher education.

It would be nice, but how do we pay for that?  Especially when there are way more degrees than ever before for jobs that didn't have degrees previously.

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21 minutes ago, Turtle said:

It would be nice, but how do we pay for that?  Especially when there are way more degrees than ever before for jobs that didn't have degrees previously.

Perhaps cost could be weighed toward the demand for the role. For example an arts degree in ancient Himalayan theology would cost $500k, where as a highly in demand role would be subsidized

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2 minutes ago, more said:

Perhaps cost could be weighed toward the demand for the role. For example an arts degree in ancient Himalayan theology would cost $500k, where as a highly in demand role would be subsidized

This is my way of thinking to a large extent. Professional degrees (those with almost certainty of employment) are free/heavily subsidised. Other degrees which might be nice to do, but may or may not readily lead to employment, much pricier.

And for heavens sake, stop forcing kids who haven't got a clue what they want to do to go to uni, just because........get a job, do national service, whatever (except laze around mooching off your parents), but don't go and take up space and money at uni.

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26 minutes ago, Turtle said:

It would be nice, but how do we pay for that?  Especially when there are way more degrees than ever before for jobs that didn't have degrees previously.

I don't pretend to be an economist but sometime we have to find a way.

Our 10% GST currently raises about $55 billion a year. Take it to 11% and there's $5.5 billion we could put into further education. That's a lot of courses.

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7 minutes ago, more said:

Perhaps cost could be weighed toward the demand for the role. For example an arts degree in ancient Himalayan theology would cost $500k, where as a highly in demand role would be subsidized

And then you look at the current way of paying for it. That person billed $500K will never pay for it anyway, cause they'll never earn enough in Australia to start paying HECS, or whatever it's called now.

 

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1 minute ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

And then you look at the current way of paying for it. That person billed $500K will never pay for it anyway, cause they'll never earn enough in Australia to start paying HECS, or whatever it's called now.

 

Or change that. You can get HECS if you're likely to get a job. You can't if it's an 'interest' degree.

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