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17 minutes ago, goughy said:

I read a comment else where that Anthony Green said the inaccuracy of polls is coming down to people not having landlines anymore. 

You'd have to think the polling companies would be nervous about their future when the figures were so poor. Qld were polling 50-50 and it ended up 58-42 - that's a pretty big margin of error.

I've always thought polls were a bit hit and miss. I mean who would actually admit to voting for One Nation?

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Well done Scomo. 

Im in his electorate so I suppose nothing will change we didn’t see him when he was PM, we didn’t see him during the election and now we won’t see him again.

gotta say though as a self professed centrist and a bit of a lover of the “fair go” I think as a population and a government we have set the bar pretty low when it seems our only metric for how well we are doing is based on raw dollars and cents and self interest.

The debate both among the pollies  and the population seemed to be centred on a very small number of hip pocket items.

surely we are better than that as a nation, or have we moved beyond that now? 

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“The goal for the United Australia Party was to ensure the Labor Government did not get into power, introducing more than $1 trillion of new taxes,” Mr Palmer said.

Called it 2 weeks ago, don't underestimate the Palmer effect. Only annoyed I did not put my money where my mouth was

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7 minutes ago, roxii said:

gotta say though as a self professed centrist and a bit of a lover of the “fair go” I think as a population and a government we have set the bar pretty low when it seems our only metric for how well we are doing is based on raw dollars and cents and self interest.

The debate both among the pollies  and the population seemed to be centred on a very small number of hip pocket items.

 

Yes, I was just saying exactly the same to my mother & Mrs.

At the end of the day, most people vote with their hip pocket, esp. those poor bastards mortgaged to the eyeballs in a capital city.

I think I'm following the classic pattern of moving a bit more left of centre as I get older & more financially secure & think more about the planet etc. we'll leave for kids/grandkids, which was reflected in my voting this time around (an Independent who I've worked with on renewable energy issues, who I know is morally a good person, but still understands if you want those solutions to work, they have to be economically viable).

If I'd been all about getting $'s into our electorate, I'd have voted Barnaby, but he's crazy as a cut snake & I just couldn't go there.

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6 minutes ago, roxii said:

gotta say though as a self professed centrist and a bit of a lover of the “fair go” I think as a population and a government we have set the bar pretty low when it seems our only metric for how well we are doing is based on raw dollars and cents and self interest.The debate both among the pollies  and the population seemed to be centred on a very small number of hip pocket items. surely we are better than that as a nation, or have we moved beyond that now? 

Everyone will vote with self interest in mind, regardless of how egalitarian they are. There were definitely policies which would have affected me personally but more importantly there were policies I thought were bad for the country.

It's virtually impossible to get a party who reflect how I feel on all policies so it's a matter of choosing the one which best aligns.

Whilst I voted LNP this time around, they just happened to be a better fit this time around. Having said that...
I think their climate policy sucks.
I hate energy discussion being limited to coal or renewable when I think Nuclear would be preferable.
I don't think workers should be given an above CPI pay increase unless - just like Bob Hawke's Accord - there is some productivity increase in return.
I don't like our immigration policy
Medicare needs to be looked at as it wastes vast sums of money whilst not providing things it should (dental/physio/optical)

Anyway, that goodness it's over - this campaign has really shitted me.
 

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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

There was a huge amount of misinformation getting around in our electorate. There were full billboards warning people of "Labor's Death tax", and a lot of stuff about what Dutton had "Delivered", which in actual fact is just promises that weren't even costed in the recent budget.

Dutton had boasted earlier about his "$600,000 war-chest" to fight Get-up and was incredibly visible. I think however, at least in my part of the electorate, the biggest factor was the fuss they made about Ali France not living in the electorate. I think if she had, it would have made the difference to a lot of people. 

Death tax was mentioned on one of the panels on TV. Bowen said the lies about death tax hurt them........ Jones piped in with an immediate...... that’s an outright lie....... in that he said he had a senior labor colleague on his show months ago who said on air...... that it was definitely on their agenda! It is also on the Greens agenda !

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5 minutes ago, trinube said:

Everyone will vote with self interest in mind, regardless of how egalitarian they are. There were definitely policies which would have affected me personally but more importantly there were policies I thought were bad for the country.

It's virtually impossible to get a party who reflect how I feel on all policies so it's a matter of choosing the one which best aligns.

Whilst I voted LNP this time around, they just happened to be a better fit this time around. Having said that...
I think their climate policy sucks.
I hate energy discussion being limited to coal or renewable when I think Nuclear would be preferable.
I don't think workers should be given an above CPI pay increase unless - just like Bob Hawke's Accord - there is some productivity increase in return.
I don't like our immigration policy
Medicare needs to be looked at as it wastes vast sums of money whilst not providing things it should (dental/physio/optical)

Anyway, that goodness it's over - this campaign has really shitted me.
 

Yeah, I agree.

And the scare campaign.  For example the franking credits issue, the Libs ads on that were complete BS.  Our financial adviser (yes, we finally found a good one 😲) crunched the numbers for a selection of her clients and worked out the negative effect on their financial situation was on average 0.75%.

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19 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

Yes, I was just saying exactly the same to my mother & Mrs.

At the end of the day, most people vote with their hip pocket, esp. those poor bastards mortgaged to the eyeballs in a capital city.

I think I'm following the classic pattern of moving a bit more left of centre as I get older & more financially secure & think more about the planet etc. we'll leave for kids/grandkids, which was reflected in my voting this time around (an Independent who I've worked with on renewable energy issues, who I know is morally a good person, but still understands if you want those solutions to work, they have to be economically viable).

If I'd been all about getting $'s into our electorate, I'd have voted Barnaby, but he's crazy as a cut snake & I just couldn't go there.

The problem is that Shorten was going directly after people who have/are working their arses off, saving and investing so that they can retire and not be a burden on society. That's never going to win votes. 

I'm sure everyone wants more to be spent on the needy but to fund it tackle the billions that is wasted on bullshit, not the pockets of those who have worked and sacrificed for it.

People who support Labor go on about how they want more spent here and there, but were quite happy for the Labor party to throw BILLIONS away on things like  road projects that was never even started!! How far that money could have gone in the children's Hospital... absolutely disgraceful.

They seem to not understand that all the money the government spends comes from our pocket

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28 minutes ago, roxii said:

The debate both among the pollies  and the population seemed to be centred on a very small number of hip pocket items.

I think it was more that fact that a high taxing, high spending government is not what the people want, nor is it a divisive figure like Shorten.

If Albo was the opposition leader, it would have been a different result IMO, even though he is also from the left of the ALP

As someone said, it looks like what the county really wants is a centrist government that will govern for all and not look to divide the nation with an us and them mentality

Depending on the makeup of the senate, either we get three years of government or three years of stalling, excuses and stagnation

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Congratulation to the Scott Morrison and the IronJimbo Party.

About a month ago I was doing the B&B swim and at a breakfast, I said to a mate.....I will guarantee you 3 things.

1. Tiger Woods will win another major this year

2. Abbott will be re-elected

3. Shorten will lose an unloseable election.

Polls are no longer reliable and the silent population will come to the fore.

Also at the risk of alienating labor supporters - I still can’t believe people are stupid enough to still vote for Labor under Shorten. The guy should have holidayed in Bali for the last month and shut his mouth..... had he done so he would be prime minister. Albanese would have won. But he does not want the leadership  from what I know. But this may now change things.

Happ Birthday IronJimbo government!

 

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12 minutes ago, trinube said:

Everyone will vote with self interest in mind, regardless of how egalitarian they are. There were definitely policies which would have affected me personally but more importantly there were policies I thought were bad for the country.

I voted against the party that would give me the best financial outcome (or at least from what I worked out on their policies). But if you mean by self interest, voting against a person I can't stand, then I suppose I did.

Both parties have policies that are bad for the country as a whole. But then they are just "policies & promises" and what comes out the other side of this could be completely different.

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9 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

Yeah, I agree.

And the scare campaign.  For example the franking credits issue, the Libs ads on that were complete BS.  Our financial adviser (yes, we finally found a good one 😲) crunched the numbers for a selection of her clients and worked out the negative effect on their financial situation was on average 0.75%.

Maybe you need an accountant rather than a financial adviser.

But from. Labor standpoint it was a stupid policy. If it came in, retirees etc would have most likely dumped share and put money elsewhere. And those dumped shares would have been picked up by other investors who would be eligible for franking credits....therefore the net gain for Labor govt is zero.

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The final spending lies ran at:

Liberal @$11.3 Billion

Labor @$96 Billion.

Massive difference that would need funding. Yep...... more taxes.

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14 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

Yeah, I agree.

And the scare campaign.  For example the franking credits issue, the Libs ads on that were complete BS.  Our financial adviser (yes, we finally found a good one 😲) crunched the numbers for a selection of her clients and worked out the negative effect on their financial situation was on average 0.75%.

that .75% can mean the world to some pensioners that rely on this money.  It wasn't a scare campaign to them. Dumb policy. Bowen should also step aside and all their policies should now be dropped if they wish to survive. 

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12 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

And the scare campaign.

It's frustrating the negativity that accompanies all campaigns.

The Libs tossed some big scares out but they were equalled or surpassed by Labor. 

I simply don't understand why politicians can say pretty much anything during a campaign and there's no legal mechanism for them to be corrected. Don't get me started on election promises that are never delivered. There needs to be accountability - you can't deliver the policy you were voted in on then step down.

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Its an interesting one that will no doubt be poured over for some time.  Best forget the old time polls next time - there are better ways to assess and it involves internet data.  Even the bookies got it wrong

Too much change too soon and the wrong salesman.  I remember returning to this country after some years away and being stunned about how self-centered it had become and how it was drifting away from progressive thinking.  The lack of understanding that if you continue to wind back taxes you will have to take out of the institutions that provide the services such as education, health...   Yes we all know there are inefficiencies but no more that the large companies I have worked in and they provide the opportunity for everyone to succeed.  

Its all become a bit self-centered, see all the super discussions.  Its not set up as a generational wealth transfer system but thats what its being used for.  Ah too much to talk about, anyway onward and upward...

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1 minute ago, BarryBevan said:

Queensland the stupid state

you didn't mention the other states that rejected labor and their muppet....

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1 minute ago, BarryBevan said:

Preference flow from palmer and one nation

If you really think that is the reason they lost the unloseable, you have learnt nothing. 

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1 minute ago, Prince said:

If you really think that is the reason they lost the unloseable, you have learnt nothing. 

It is exactly what happened and Clive gets a mine

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2 minutes ago, symo said:

Its all become a bit self-centered, see all the super discussions.  Its not set up as a generational wealth transfer system but thats what its being used for. 

Super's not about being wealthy, it's  a way to get people off the public purse. Keating recognised the benefit of compulsory super  as a way for people to support themselves because the aged pension simply isn't sustainable with a booming population. It may take a generation or so but the country will benefit enormously from what Keating did in the 90s.

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2 minutes ago, Prince said:

If you really think that is the reason they lost the unloseable, you have learnt nothing. 

Can I learn  from you, how about we have a weekly or monthly on line transitions lecture.

I would normally move back to the UK but they are even worse.

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1 minute ago, BarryBevan said:

 

Can I learn  from you, how about we have a weekly or monthly on line transitions lecture.

I would normally move back to the UK but they are even worse.

It's not that hard-Labor have a reputation for wasting money and taxing people who have worked hard for what they have. That needs to change.

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2 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

 

Can I learn  from you, how about we have a weekly or monthly on line transitions lecture.

 

don't learn from me, read what your labor legends in your own party are saying in the wash-up. only plebersik is going with the "it was Clive" excuse. 

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Remember this: Shorten thought anyone who is on $90k plus is the top end of town. He is out of touch.

Also, ScoMo pretty much had an answer for everything and that is because he previously was Treasurer hence he knows about the the costings. Bill left that to others.

ScoMos victory speech spoke of fairness for all and everyone having the opportunity to succeed. Bills campaign divided the landscape. It was not all inclusive across the population.

Again, congrats to the IronJimbo party.

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Just now, IronmanFoz said:

Remember this: Shorten thought anyone who is on $90k plus is the top end of town. He is out of touch.

Also, ScoMo pretty much had an answer for everything and that is because he previously was Treasurer hence he knows about the the costings. Bill left that to others.

ScoMos victory speech spoke of fairness for all and everyone having the opportunity to succeed. Bills campaign divided the landscape. It was not all inclusive across the population.

Again, congrats to the IronJimbo party.

well said,   where is Ooompa?  he is quiet. 

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4 minutes ago, more said:

It's not that hard-Labor have a reputation for wasting money and taxing people who have worked hard for what they have. That needs to change.

And leaving a massive debt for the next government to cleanup.

 

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On 12/05/2019 at 9:20 PM, Oompa Loompa said:

With Sco Mo's incompetant campaign and having lost the election already. 

 

Does the Liberal Party blame him, the Liberal Party itself or both. 

 

They treat people like Abbott and Turnbull with disdain who won elections, how will they treat a non performer that has never won one and only ever lost one.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, IronmanFoz said:

Maybe you need an accountant rather than a financial adviser.

But from. Labor standpoint it was a stupid policy. If it came in, retirees etc would have most likely dumped share and put money elsewhere. And those dumped shares would have been picked up by other investors who would be eligible for franking credits....therefore the net gain for Labor govt is zero.

I have an accountant, but he is basically MIA except at tax return time.

25 minutes ago, Prince said:

that .75% can mean the world to some pensioners that rely on this money.  It wasn't a scare campaign to them. Dumb policy. Bowen should also step aside and all their policies should now be dropped if they wish to survive. 

When the Ad says "Your pension gone, your liveihood gone" or words to that effect, it rates as a scare campaign to me.  But Libs don't have a monopoly on scare campaigns.

24 minutes ago, trinube said:

I simply don't understand why politicians can say pretty much anything during a campaign and there's no legal mechanism for them to be corrected. Don't get me started on election promises that are never delivered. There needs to be accountability - you can't deliver the policy you were voted in on then step down.

Yup

14 minutes ago, trinube said:

Super's not about being wealthy, it's  a way to get people off the public purse. Keating recognised the benefit of compulsory super  as a way for people to support themselves because the aged pension simply isn't sustainable with a booming population. It may take a generation or so but the country will benefit enormously from what Keating did in the 90s.

Agree.  Damn glad for our girls they get that 9.5%.  And after 16yrs of self-employment, it's worked for me.

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If what the pundits are saying is correct, that labor shot them selves in the foot by actually announcing their policies  be they controversial or not is a sad indictment on our current system. 

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1 minute ago, roxii said:

If what the pundits are saying is correct, that labor shot them selves in the foot by actually announcing their policies  be they controversial or not is a sad indictment on our current system. 

It's not that they announced them, it's that they weren't the right policies.

Channelling Yes, Minister,  there's a difference between being 'courageous' and being 'wrong'.

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52 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Queensland the stupid state

Nope, Labor the stupid party.  Preferencing the greens and then the animal justice party showed their true colours.  There is a little movement in Qld (and a couple of other states) called the Green shirt movement.  All they did on election day was to get people to preference all 3 parties last.  Something like 100,000 members of this movement across the country now, mostly from people that don't give a shit about politics any other time but are sick of inner city elitists (making comments like the above) thinking they can tell everyone how to do things with a smug smile

Qld state elections is next, if Anna doesn't change the preference deal and denounce the extremists policies of these parties, there is going to be an even bigger whack to her come September

If you really believe in the movement you support, find a way to actually communicate.  First step might be to walk a mile in the shoes of those in regional Australia and understand them before preaching

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57 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Queensland the stupid state

Interesting to see a swing of something like 3.5% against the sitting Labor member in the seat of Whitlam.... and that was without the Libs even putting up a candidate 

Seems the working class didn’t fancy what Bill was trying to sell

And as far as people complaining about a scare campaign on a death tax, well you people have short memories because I don’t any scare campaign will ever come close to the Mediscare campaign of last election 

I’d like to hear what Andrew#1 makes of this Labor loss. He’d have the inside goss

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1 hour ago, trinube said:

Super's not about being wealthy, it's  a way to get people off the public purse.

Yet Australia leads the world in the amount we leave for our family when we die. Results from 2017 show the average inheritance left by Australians ($501,000) is 4 times the global average, and nearly 50% higher than the 2nd country on the list, Singapore. What is it, but compulsory Super that has led to that?

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34 minutes ago, Cottoneyes said:

Nope, Labor the stupid party.  Preferencing the greens and then the animal justice party showed their true colours.  There is a little movement in Qld (and a couple of other states) called the Green shirt movement.  All they did on election day was to get people to preference all 3 parties last.  Something like 100,000 members of this movement across the country now, mostly from people that don't give a shit about politics any other time but are sick of inner city elitists (making comments like the above) thinking they can tell everyone how to do things with a smug smile

Qld state elections is next, if Anna doesn't change the preference deal and denounce the extremists policies of these parties, there is going to be an even bigger whack to her come September

If you really believe in the movement you support, find a way to actually communicate.  First step might be to walk a mile in the shoes of those in regional Australia and understand them before preaching

It will be a tough time if labor stay with their emissions target. We don’t even have a real plan for this. Neither party  It’s way too high but we need to do something on it 

They’re environment policy is at odds with the Unions  something has to give   They should all be asking ‘what would Bob do?

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2 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Yet Australia leads the world in the amount we leave for our family when we die. Results from 2017 show the average inheritance left by Australians ($501,000) is 4 times the global average, and nearly 50% higher than the 2nd country on the list, Singapore. What is it, but compulsory Super that has led to that?

I want to see them do more for super.  Even the cap is not right.  Get it 12% as well as soon as possible.  It will be a good cost saving for all governments in the future.  

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At least we should be seeing a surplus by this time next year. 

And I should be able to arrive late at Ferny Grove station & get a carpark, or get over the Linkfield overpass without any hold-up.

 

Have you got your 2nd range crossing yet Goughy?

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38 minutes ago, Mr Tinman said:

 

 

I’d like to hear what Andrew#1 makes of this Labor loss. He’d have the inside goss

I am sure he will give some interesting insights and I am sure he will post something once he drops Bill off at the airport 

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5 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Yet Australia leads the world in the amount we leave for our family when we die. Results from 2017 show the average inheritance left by Australians ($501,000) is 4 times the global average, and nearly 50% higher than the 2nd country on the list, Singapore. 

And what’s wrong with that?

The money is either going to be spent or invested, both of which is better than it being pissed up against a wall by government in Canberra 

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1 minute ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

At least we should be seeing a surplus by this time next year. 

And I should be able to arrive late at Ferny Grove station & get a carpark, or get over the Linkfield overpass without any hold-up.

 

Have you got your 2nd range crossing yet Goughy?

See.  It’s not all bad Ex.  

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4 minutes ago, Prince said:

I want to see them do more for super.  Even the cap is not right.  Get it 12% as well as soon as possible.  It will be a good cost saving for all governments in the future.  

Exactly 

Super needs to be made as attractive as possible for those on lower incomes

I think it’s time the 15% contribution tax was abolished for those earning less than say $100k

The more the government can encourage people to save for their retirement the more money they will save over the long term

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32 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Have you got your 2nd range crossing yet Goughy?

It's not too far from finished.  Much is open.  The previous lnp member said for 15 years he would deliver, and after 15 years it happened.

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31 minutes ago, Mr Tinman said:

Exactly 

Super needs to be made as attractive as possible for those on lower incomes

I think it’s time the 15% contribution tax was abolished for those earning less than say $100k

The more the government can encourage people to save for their retirement the more money they will save over the long term

Until the arseholes see it as another big pot of money to tax...

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13 minutes ago, more said:

Until the arseholes see it as another big pot of money to tax...

True

OK then , go the other way then

Zero contributions tax on all super, tax on distributions at marginal rates with 50% discount, grandfathered so that no one that has payed contributions tax for many years is worse off ( say everyone under 50 is included so they still have quite a few years to take advantage of the change)

At least that way people’s nest eggs will grow as fast as possible and the government will get its cut of a growing tax base over time 

Edit: And no one can complain people are amassing huge super accounts and dodging tax

Edited by Mr Tinman

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I just wanna say this once then I'll leave it alone.  But there really is a sentimentality coming that all people who have great incomes, say that 90k/year or more are all hard workers who have sacrificed to get there.  And if you're not well off, you don't want it enough and don't work hard enough.  I really find this an appalling opinion, and I just can't understand where it comes from?  But every time you put a piece of trash in the bin at a shopping centre, someone has to empty it for you!  Every time you take a shit in their toilets, someone has to eventually clean that toilet!  Are you gonna do it?  Are you gonna pay someone 100k to do it?  Why don't you find the cleaner the next time you're at a Westfield and you tell them they just don't want it enough and aren't trying enough!

And before IJ asks me, yes, I have done this!  For 18 months, 7 days a week.  Not everyone will reach the heights of everyone else.  If we all did, I bet this country wouldn't survive.  But this elitist attitude, or whatever it is, that because your doing well then you must be better than those that aren't, is just crap.

I do work for wealthy people, and for people who aren't as well off.  I'm about to do a job for one of the wealthiest families in town.  You know how much I charged them; the same as I do for everyone else!  Because wealthy or not, we're all the same people.  No one is any better than anyone else because of money.  I know well off people who are absolute piece of shit self centred wankers, and I know well off people who are the absolute salt of the earth.  The same goes for the less wealthy people I know.

And if you want to think that I have an attitude problem about wealthier people, well out of all my friends here, there wouldn't be one whose family income is less than triple what ours is!  Most would be much higher than that.  Not one of those people think less of me because of it, and I don't covert what they have.  I love my family and I would, and do do everything I can for them.  That is all I need in life.

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9 minutes ago, goughy said:

Every time you take a shit in their toilets, someone has to eventually clean that toilet!  Are you gonna do it?  Are you gonna pay someone 100k to do it?  Why don't you find the cleaner the next time you're at a Westfield and you tell them they just don't want it enough and aren't trying enough!

 

Unless you live in Nauru where the toilet cleaners are amongest the highest paid people in the country....because they are all the relos of the pollies whose companies have the toilet cleaning contracts 🙄

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20 minutes ago, goughy said:

I just wanna say this once then I'll leave it alone.  But there really is a sentimentality coming that all people who have great incomes, say that 90k/year or more are all hard workers who have sacrificed to get there.  And if you're not well off, you don't want it enough and don't work hard enough.  I really find this an appalling opinion, and I just can't understand where it comes from?  

.

It might have come from this ‘big end of town’ mentality.  You can’t keep biting the people on high incomes or big corporations or the banks. Yes they earn a lot but they are also keeping this country alive    Fairness for all should be promoted    

Morrison should work on getting wages increased somehow and whilst not hurting small business    There are some valuable  lessons for both parties. 

I happy today though not because my horse won but my gut tells me Morrison will be a good leader and the fantastic thing the party has already had a cleanout . No more toxic Abbott and a fair amount of new blood. I rated Morrison as a fairly average leader but I like the cut of his jib. His speech last night was great. 

 

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