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On 09/11/2018 at 4:33 PM, IronJimbo said:

Plenty of water from our own snow melt flows east into the ocean while the Murray is reduced to a trickle

You do know the Snowy actually flows south?

And the Murrumbidgee is a tributary the Murray?

Nothing from our ski fields flows east into the ocean. It's either into the Murray and it's tributaries, or into the Murray/Murrumbidgee via the Snowy Scheme, or a small proportion is released into the Snowy (which now needs more water, not less).

Edited by Paul Every

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10 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

A more honest portrayal of my opinion would note that I called for a new study

That is a bit harder for you to ridicule though, so here we are...

On the contrary, it's particularly easy to ridicule.

So you expect all the limiting factors that have long been well understood, either will be found not to actually exist or can be magically overcome by "a new study".

You say there are "smarter people who can work it out", while failing to recognise that the "smarter people" in the relevant fields are the ones who say it's not feasible. You shrug off or ignore all reasoned and informed opinion just as dismissively as you do facts and logic.

Conversely, you keenly support the ideas of people who have little or no knowledge or involvement in the fields relevant to the issue.

You deride environmentalists even though its abundantly documented that environmental damage has been one of the largest problems with the Snowy Mountains Scheme.

You've also proposed taking water from mythical river systems that don't exist.

And you think you're opinion is beyond ridicule?

Keep talking. :wallbash:

 

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Yeah, you're right Paul.  Let's all just rip on each other, that's the best way of solving problems 

I don't recall saying it was definitely viable, just that it seemed to be a good idea.  If it won't work, it won't work 

What's your idea?

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1)  Believe climate change is 100% anthropogenic

2)  Believe it can be halted and reversed

3)  Believe that the rest of the world will follow our lead and not act in their own self-interest

4)  Ride our golden unicorns to candyland

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40 minutes ago, Stikman said:

2)  Believe it can be halted and reversed

3)  Believe that the rest of the world will follow our lead and not act in their own self-interest

Stranger things have happened.

Who'd have thought with all the hoopla around the hole in the ozone layer we'd see it reversing, and now expected to be fully healed & back to normal levels in our life-time.

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Alan Duffy was saying on the ABC about a week ago that at current rate it should be fixed by around 2060.  And isn't it mostly because of the removal of cfc's?  We can actually make a difference.  You just have to believe...

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Funny thing is, it's still there and still significant.  It won't be back to the levels it was pre-panic for about another 40 years at least but somehow we're all quite comfortable with it.  Certain CFCs are still being pumped out in manufacturing plants in third-world countries and thirty years after the first international agreement to limit dangerous substances we are only just getting the twentieth nation to sign up, with many having targets that reach out until 2050.  And this for a substance whose replacement is relatively easily substituted without a huge increase in cost for products primarily used by the world's more affluent residents.  So tell me again how effective we are going to be at reducing emissions of a gas that is a byproduct of a vital component of economic growth, especially for less-developed countries?

Whether you believe in AGW or not, believing in the coming together of nations over it is a fantasy.  It would be easier to believe that it's a conspiracy by developed nations to stifle the growth of their future economic overlords...

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3 hours ago, Stikman said:

Whether you believe in AGW or not, believing in the coming together of nations over it is a fantasy.

And there's the key

China and India have had a taste of relative prosperity, and they appear to like it

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On 16/11/2018 at 5:21 PM, IronJimbo said:

And there's the key

China and India have had a taste of relative prosperity, and they appear to like it

So why don't you just say it instead of dancing around it  ....  that is your reasoning for doing nothing?

It is not a reason to do everything we can to stop human induced global warming!

Edited by lawman

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That's the point Lawman.  WE as in Australia can't do anything to stop it by ourselves.  In fact the most likely outcome from us mandating action is that we will shift our more troublesome industries to other countries where the damage will be worse than it would have been had we continued to do it.  So ultimately unless everybody is on board (which we know they aren't and won't be) we harm ourselves economically to, at best, achieve nothing in terms of AGW and at worst make it worse.  That's not to say that we should ignore it and do nothing, let's just not be gung-ho idealists.

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On 16/11/2018 at 11:17 AM, Stikman said:

4)  Ride our golden unicorns to candyland

Candyland?

What is their migration policy, I could be interested in moving...... :D

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On 18/11/2018 at 11:29 AM, lawman said:

So why don't you just say it instead of dancing around it  ....  that is your reasoning for doing nothing?

It is not a reason to do everything we can to stop human induced global warming!

Dancing around it?

You haven't read many of my posts, have you?

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LNP getting smashed in Victoria. Targeting their ever shrinking base isn't rally proving to be an election winning strategy, it will be interesting to see if they change tack before the NSW and Federal elections. 

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Somewhere the members of Labor are putting another lock on Shorten's dungeon door, make triple sure he can't be seen or heard before the federal election

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While I agree, BS is Labor's big drawback, they are doing exactly what people wanted!  Not changing leader!  Even as disliked as he is, changing could be worse.

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How long until we hear federal lnp members saying there is no relationship federally and it means nothing?

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The bigger question is when is the lnp going to break into 2 parties.  A centralist party not beholden to unions or big business would rope it in

Still, here in Vic the libs better get ready for another campaign - IF the 23 labor members get charged with electoral fraud over the red shirts, 23 by elections would make things interesting

My own seat of Gippy South is interesting - only had Nats, Grns and Lab contend - Nats returned with an increased majority (they do have a pretty good member) for one of their safest seats.  Yet everyone complains that we get no funding like the seats around us which are all marginal...

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2 hours ago, Cottoneyes said:

Still, here in Vic the libs better get ready for another campaign - IF the 23 labor members get charged with electoral fraud over the red shirts, 23 by elections would make things interesting

 

That's a strange comment? The Victorian voters just showed us how important they think the "Red Shirt Scandal" is. They took to the Coalition baseball bats.... it was a smashing by anyone's measure, election analyst Anthony Green called it a bloodbath. Labor recorded swings of up to 15% and is looking at holding 61 of the 88 seats with the Coalition possibility down to just 20 seats. Kennett and Kroger now in open warfare.    And you recon "23 by elections would make things interesting" ..... Love your optimism Cottoneyes  

Edited by Mike Del

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3 hours ago, Mike Del said:

Scomo must be sh#tting bricks 

Remember when Howard was PM.....most of the states were labour run...... so there is hope for him yet.

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8 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Remember when Howard was PM.....most of the states were labour run...... so there is hope for him yet.

Big difference between Howard and Scomo.  The latter is not a politicians left tit.

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And the lnp wasn't a self destructive mess then either!  

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5 hours ago, lawman said:

Big difference between Howard and Scomo.  The latter is not a politicians left tit.

How come we never referred to Howard as Joho?

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Cause he doesn't think the pm of the country needs a stupid moniker!  Let alone one they refer to themselves with!!  The next step is talking about themselves in the third person, ala Trump

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On 24/11/2018 at 10:10 PM, Mike Del said:

 Love your optimism Cottoneyes  

Didn't say they would win 23, but for the libs to be in a position to really fight back in 2022, they need a few more seats to launch it from - if the red shirts get charged that is their best hope.  The second best hope is Dan hiring Campell Newman as his chief advisor

Although with the 23 seats now all with 15%+ majorities, it will take a bit to get even 1.  

Can't wait for the federal election now - best part of the day is getting your democracy sausage, waiting until you get to the line of people handing out their how to votes and stop and feign interest in the Animal justice party - just as they start talking take you first bite and interrupt them to say "Oh my god these sausages are something else?  Have you had one?"

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On ‎24‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:26 PM, goughy said:

While I agree, BS is Labor's big drawback, they are doing exactly what people wanted!  Not changing leader!  Even as disliked as he is, changing could be worse.

Bill is safe because there isn't another Bill in the party to knife him

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Regardless, the non move is a move people want to see.  Didn't krudd initiate changes that make it near impossible to remove the Labor leader?

Anyone taking odds on scomo not leading the party to the next election?  I haven't bet on anything in years, but I'd almost like to have a gamble on that!  Is there anyone else they can put in place who can make things look even worse for them?  Maybe put potato head in now!  Would be funny.

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Omg that would be awesome!  The right wing nutters would love it. And even funnier, if the I independent ralliers that are going on about attacking TA's seat were successful and he somehow lost, would be frickin awesome!  I'd even watch the election coverage to see that!

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4 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

Bill is safe because there isn't another Bill in the party to knife him

He is safe because Rudd put effective controls in place to reduce the risk of opinion poll and unpopular radio and TV jocks undermining the government of the day

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11 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

He is safe because Rudd put effective controls in place to reduce the risk of opinion poll and unpopular radio and TV jocks undermining the government of the day

Or alternatively, he is safe because as a society we have done everything to reverse Darwin's law.  Both parties now have the most piss weak leaders seen for over 3 centuries

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44 minutes ago, Cottoneyes said:

Or alternatively, he is safe because as a society we have done everything to reverse Darwin's law.  Both parties now have the most piss weak leaders seen for over 3 centuries

We elect them, they respond to us. While the leadership may have been poor:

Rudd knowing he would never lead again put controls in place to ensure that a PM could not be knifed by a small band of narrow based interest groups, supported by media henchmen/people

 

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1 hour ago, BarryBevan said:

He is safe because Rudd put effective controls in place to reduce the risk of opinion poll and unpopular radio and TV jocks undermining the government of the day

lol

I love the varying arguments that either nobody watches Sky News, or it's powerful enough to bring down a PM

Which is it?

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Can they help out the labor party any further?

Julia Banks has just quit the Liberal Party to sit as an Independent on the cross bench.

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I know the election is kinda slatted for May.  Could it actually happen earlier or is it really just stick it out to then?  Not that I necessarily want it earlier!  I kinda like the fixed term idea, taking away the idea that a sitting govt can call an election when it suits them best.

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13 minutes ago, goughy said:

I know the election is kinda slatted for May.  Could it actually happen earlier or is it really just stick it out to then?  Not that I necessarily want it earlier!  I kinda like the fixed term idea, taking away the idea that a sitting govt can call an election when it suits them best.

But that's not what this is. They may say They are going through to May because the people want a full term, but is the real reason that they want as long as possible to claw back some support?

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Could happen earlier, probably won't without a miracle happening for the Coalition.  Kids overboard kind of thing but on an issue where Labor differs in philosophy (which is something pretty hard to find these days.)  They will want as long as they can get to try and save some seats because they know that it will be a slaughter, the reality is that it will more likely result in internal drama as an "every man for himself" approach is adopted by the vast majority who have no skills useful outside of politics (if at all.)

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The adults are not to be found in politics I'm afraid.  Who with any talent or leadership ability would sit in parliament when they could triple with better job security and likely more influence on the world if they were in private enterprise?  Anyone who genuinely had a desire to be there out of a sense of civic duty would hang their heads in despair and quit well before they had built the social capital to act on it, if they even managed to get pre-selected in the first place.

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

Let's get it over and done with and get Bill in

I'm sick of being able to afford electricity

It’s come down by so much since the adults axed the tax. I’m scared like you Jimbo. 

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

Let's get it over and done with and get Bill in

I'm sick of being able to afford electricity

I'll pay for Shorten's electricity increases with the $550 a year in electricity bill reductions we all received when Abbott removed the carbon tax.

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24 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

So with coal prices on a high, as well as gas, how are these energy costs going to come down?

Not with renewables.  I have no doubt there will be some pain for several years and then come down.  It’s small business that I think will struggle.  The cost of electricity in many small businesses will see some have to close their doors.  Hopefully Bill has a plan to help them 

Edited by Prince

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Nothing ever comes down.  But they have to keep saying they're doing something about it, and the shlebs will keep on believing them.  But nothing any of them have done or said has made a difference yet has it?

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