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The Politics Thread

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7 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Strange that you'd get your facts from a lefty socialist organisation like the ABC.

 

 

 

Well I didn't want you whinging about Evil Rupert

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

So I guess South Australia having among the highest electricity prices in the developed world has nothing to do with their Labor government getting rid of coal?

And Victoria having large increases in the cost of electricity has nothing to do with their Labor government getting rid of coal?

I think it had less to do with the technology and more to do with uncertainty and lack of decision making  - halting investment in either coal or renewables.  Big biz doesn't spend big bucks without a concrete and stable political and commercial enviro.

I don't think the Victorian Labour Govt actively got rid of anything.  Bracksie had Hazelwood green lighted until 2030 but Engle closed in it on the basis it was no longer eco. viable.  It was over 50 freak'n years old FFS - it was tech/OHS nightmare.

Shame, it was a good triathlon...

 

Edited by Pete

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Why don't we just invest in nukes?

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22 minutes ago, Pete said:

I think it had less to do with the technology and more to do with uncertainty and lack of decision making  - halting investment in either coal or renewables.  Big biz doesn't spend big bucks without a concrete and stable political and commercial enviro.

Of course

Nobody is going to build a coal fired plant if Shorten is promising to ban the stuff

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13 minutes ago, goughy said:

Why don't we just invest in nukes?

I'd seriously recommend going with the wisdom of Goughy*

 

 

 

*Assuming he is not being facetious

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I'm not!  As long as it's handled with absolutely no shortcuts!!!  

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1 hour ago, goughy said:

Why don't we just invest in nukes?

If you can’t see the absolute nonsense in the “nuclear energy is green and safe” argument, you need help. 

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2 minutes ago, Tyno said:

If you can’t see the absolute nonsense in the “nuclear energy is green and safe” argument, you need help. 

Telling people they need help is not a very good way of convincing them Tyno

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23 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Awesome.  I agree 100%

Do you feel dirty?

No, I'm a lefty, but even my long shaggy hair doesn't mean I'm a hippie Greenie lefty.  And if live is to go other options tyno, but will we actually do it properly?  

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There are renewable options that are cost-competitive with current coal technology, and some that are getting there.  But by and large, current coal technology is easier and cheaper as I read it (i.e. already in place, provides base load etc).

But this is changing fast with renewables becoming cheaper, storage, distributed energy solutions and the biggie - the need to upgrade coal technology to the latest technology as the old stuff wears out.  When that happens, coal will be more expensive than many renewables.  The other problem with a few big coal-fired power stations is the large efficiency losses in sending the electricity vast distances.

Small, decentralised energy options are the way to solve that efficiency problem, but the grid can't really cope with that yet due to limited capacity.

At present, catering for the unprecedented volume of renewable network connection enquiries (30GW) is not possible without network augmentation.  However, coal-fired retirements over the next 50 years are projected to reach 28GW of lost generation, freeing up considerable network capacity.

Edit to say, I don't have an idealistic opposition to nuclear, if it can be guaranteed to be done safely.  It has enormous potential.

Edited by ComfortablyNumb

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39 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Telling people they need help is not a very good way of convincing them Tyno

I’m not here to convince anyone. Just pointing out the bleeding obvious :D

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5 hours ago, Paul Every said:

Good luck finding an electorate that would welcome that.

As with most issues, the first step is overcoming ideological opposition to even having a discussion about it

 

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2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

As with most issues, the first step is overcoming ideological opposition to even having a discussion about it

 

same  issue we have with renewables

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1 hour ago, BarryBevan said:

same  issue we have with renewables

Yeah, pretty much

The idealogues usually don't like it when reliability is mentioned 

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2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

Yeah, pretty much

The idealogues usually don't like it when reliability is mentioned 

From both sides yes, yes.

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ScoMo's 80's playlist on spotify only has one aussie song on it, Stimulation by Wa Wa Nee.  This should bring his decision process into question!!

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/scott-morrisons-unaustralian-spotify-playlist-backfires/news-story/49ef6d5123a268f83e0151efa308eb62

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Yep, speaks volumes that he's their new NSW leader.  He stood her up this morning and left her to go on air alone on studio 10 (not that anyone would have been watching) and they intentionally left his chair vacant beside her and in frame, even with his glass of water!  Said he was double booked and doing an interview at the ABC.  Was spotted 30 minutes prior to the interview in a coffee shop near the 10 studios, and was caught by the ch10 cameras leaving a radio network studio (not ABC) next to ch10 thirty minutes after his interview time.

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57 minutes ago, goughy said:

Said he was double booked and doing an interview at the ABC.  

I thought Pauline said One Nation doesn’t do ABC 🤔

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Has anything to do with one nation ever not been pear shaped?

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55 minutes ago, A2K said:

I look forward to watching him shake hands with his opponent after losing the next election.

I think that handshake with Howard at the radio station was the defining point in Latham’s career 

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Omg that's what I've been thinking of since hearing this!

Like, I could see a right side conservative, or some independents going to one nation.  But a former Labor pollie, nah.  And former Labor leader, no matter how crap he was......

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1)  Believe climate change is 100% anthropogenic

2)  Believe it can be halted and reversed

3)  Believe that the rest of the world will follow our lead and not act in their own self-interest

4)  Ride our golden unicorns to candyland

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40 minutes ago, Stikman said:

2)  Believe it can be halted and reversed

3)  Believe that the rest of the world will follow our lead and not act in their own self-interest

Stranger things have happened.

Who'd have thought with all the hoopla around the hole in the ozone layer we'd see it reversing, and now expected to be fully healed & back to normal levels in our life-time.

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Alan Duffy was saying on the ABC about a week ago that at current rate it should be fixed by around 2060.  And isn't it mostly because of the removal of cfc's?  We can actually make a difference.  You just have to believe...

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Funny thing is, it's still there and still significant.  It won't be back to the levels it was pre-panic for about another 40 years at least but somehow we're all quite comfortable with it.  Certain CFCs are still being pumped out in manufacturing plants in third-world countries and thirty years after the first international agreement to limit dangerous substances we are only just getting the twentieth nation to sign up, with many having targets that reach out until 2050.  And this for a substance whose replacement is relatively easily substituted without a huge increase in cost for products primarily used by the world's more affluent residents.  So tell me again how effective we are going to be at reducing emissions of a gas that is a byproduct of a vital component of economic growth, especially for less-developed countries?

Whether you believe in AGW or not, believing in the coming together of nations over it is a fantasy.  It would be easier to believe that it's a conspiracy by developed nations to stifle the growth of their future economic overlords...

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3 hours ago, Stikman said:

Whether you believe in AGW or not, believing in the coming together of nations over it is a fantasy.

And there's the key

China and India have had a taste of relative prosperity, and they appear to like it

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On 16/11/2018 at 5:21 PM, IronJimbo said:

And there's the key

China and India have had a taste of relative prosperity, and they appear to like it

So why don't you just say it instead of dancing around it  ....  that is your reasoning for doing nothing?

It is not a reason to do everything we can to stop human induced global warming!

Edited by lawman

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That's the point Lawman.  WE as in Australia can't do anything to stop it by ourselves.  In fact the most likely outcome from us mandating action is that we will shift our more troublesome industries to other countries where the damage will be worse than it would have been had we continued to do it.  So ultimately unless everybody is on board (which we know they aren't and won't be) we harm ourselves economically to, at best, achieve nothing in terms of AGW and at worst make it worse.  That's not to say that we should ignore it and do nothing, let's just not be gung-ho idealists.

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On 16/11/2018 at 11:17 AM, Stikman said:

4)  Ride our golden unicorns to candyland

Candyland?

What is their migration policy, I could be interested in moving...... :D

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On 18/11/2018 at 11:29 AM, lawman said:

So why don't you just say it instead of dancing around it  ....  that is your reasoning for doing nothing?

It is not a reason to do everything we can to stop human induced global warming!

Dancing around it?

You haven't read many of my posts, have you?

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LNP getting smashed in Victoria. Targeting their ever shrinking base isn't rally proving to be an election winning strategy, it will be interesting to see if they change tack before the NSW and Federal elections. 

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Somewhere the members of Labor are putting another lock on Shorten's dungeon door, make triple sure he can't be seen or heard before the federal election

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While I agree, BS is Labor's big drawback, they are doing exactly what people wanted!  Not changing leader!  Even as disliked as he is, changing could be worse.

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How long until we hear federal lnp members saying there is no relationship federally and it means nothing?

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The bigger question is when is the lnp going to break into 2 parties.  A centralist party not beholden to unions or big business would rope it in

Still, here in Vic the libs better get ready for another campaign - IF the 23 labor members get charged with electoral fraud over the red shirts, 23 by elections would make things interesting

My own seat of Gippy South is interesting - only had Nats, Grns and Lab contend - Nats returned with an increased majority (they do have a pretty good member) for one of their safest seats.  Yet everyone complains that we get no funding like the seats around us which are all marginal...

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2 hours ago, Cottoneyes said:

Still, here in Vic the libs better get ready for another campaign - IF the 23 labor members get charged with electoral fraud over the red shirts, 23 by elections would make things interesting

 

That's a strange comment? The Victorian voters just showed us how important they think the "Red Shirt Scandal" is. They took to the Coalition baseball bats.... it was a smashing by anyone's measure, election analyst Anthony Green called it a bloodbath. Labor recorded swings of up to 15% and is looking at holding 61 of the 88 seats with the Coalition possibility down to just 20 seats. Kennett and Kroger now in open warfare.    And you recon "23 by elections would make things interesting" ..... Love your optimism Cottoneyes  

Edited by Mike Del

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3 hours ago, Mike Del said:

Scomo must be sh#tting bricks 

Remember when Howard was PM.....most of the states were labour run...... so there is hope for him yet.

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8 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Remember when Howard was PM.....most of the states were labour run...... so there is hope for him yet.

Big difference between Howard and Scomo.  The latter is not a politicians left tit.

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And the lnp wasn't a self destructive mess then either!  

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