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minxman

All the Bullshit gadgets

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So after reading the recent busso bike thread, and JDE'scomment that he looked at his watch and thought too fast on the run, after watching his powermetre for 180km on the bike etc etc, does anyone just get on the bike and ride hard, then get off and run hard? I dont own a powermetre, never race with a running watch etc, thoughts?

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no powermeter, my HR monitor rarely works, my bike computer works just a little more often than my HR monitor, mostly i only look at my watch when i exit the water & cross the finish line.

 

i work off perceived effort largely. I can tell when i'm going too hard. I can tell when i'm bludging.

 

got to say, i'd like to have a power meter for academic interest, but can't justify the $'s.

 

in sprint races, when i want to turn it on, i ride hard as i can, then run hard as i can. it hurts like a bugger, and i don't really enjoy it, but like to remind myself i can do it if i want to.

 

in long races, I seem to know what perceived effort will get me the time i'm after.

Edited by Thommo227

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Horses for courses, dude. Whatever works best for you is fine, and doesn't mean you need to be critical of people of do otherwise.

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I love gadgets and toys! got a HR monitor bike computer etc (Polar) after 1 year in tri. It functions now as a stop watch I hate HR and find it too difficult and too delayed etc to train by. But since I got the Power meter I cannot think of money better spent. If you have not tried one you cannot be critical I thought the same how hard can it be to pace yourself or to do intervals at the correct intensity....... well it is a lot easier with a PM and very accurate too.

 

It is a very worthwhile gadget. probably better investment than race wheels and GPS devices if you had to make a choice IMO

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So after reading the recent busso bike thread, and JDE'scomment that he looked at his watch and thought too fast on the run, after watching his powermetre for 180km on the bike etc etc, does anyone just get on the bike and ride hard, then get off and run hard? I dont own a powermetre, never race with a running watch etc, thoughts?

 

 

If you had these tools maybe you would have rode under 5 hrs and run under 3.5 hrs ya big girl... PAPOW

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From my perspective, anything short of HIM, I just race it to feel - if you stuff it up then there is plenty of opportunity to back off slightly, regroup and go again. The difficulty I find with 90k+ rides in races is that I've normally tapered beforehand so generally feel really good (unlike in training where there's always that residual tired feeling) and its so easy to overcook it. So for me the power meter is a great pacing tool in those longer races. But racing is only part of it - to me its also the most efficient way to train irrespective of the distance I'll be racing. Running is a bit different - again will pace it properly in IM, less so in HIM and just run hard in anything shorter. Works for me.

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Minxman, I see where your coming from.

 

I find using power is a great thing during the longer races to help pace yourself. Not that it works too well when I'm unable to bloody control myself.

 

Reviewing the data after the race can help pinpoint what went wrong and then maybe you can change things to prevent it from happening again.

 

Ill be putting my data up soon and am happy to take the criticism that should be directed to me, unlike the critisim that was directed towards CEM and JDE after his great bike time.

 

I wish I had the experience and knowledge of racing long like you have in the sport to know it all and be able to control all variables in a race.

 

Feel free share on your knowledge for others to use.

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I don't get all the doods who are dirty on training by heart rate. As a triathlete why the hell would you be interested in the HR lag for 20 second intervals. Strap it on, do a set course at a set submax HR or pace every month and watch the numbers change as your physiology does. I get a kick out of that. If I want to see my critical power for 5 seconds change I'll go pump mega squats, get on the creatine and become a trackie. If I want to see how my aerobic metabolism has changed with a certain training approach HR is appropriate and versatile ie can be used for bike and run.

 

In response to Mr PIS's original post. I race with a watch, look down at swim exit and race finish.

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Horses for courses, dude. Whatever works best for you is fine, and doesn't mean you need to be critical of people of do otherwise.

 

+1

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I just care about what I do in training and racing and I listen to others without judgement... If you do a sub 9 or a sub 17 I find I may learn something from you....

 

I love when people are open and you hear from the experts of coaching through to last across the line. I hope Ratty does post his data; he had a hard day, but enjoyed himself. He may get some feedback that he hadn't considered that helps him or others; or he may get critism for a bad ride and no one gains.

 

The mark of a person is not their race time.......

 

(null)

Edited by Steno
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.

 

i work off perceived effort largely. I can tell when i'm going too hard. I can tell when i'm bludging.

 

 

in long races, I seem to know what perceived effort will get me the time i'm after.

 

 

I never learned to pace myself until I started training (and analysing) using power.

For me to obtain the optimum performance my perceived effort is initially low, and increases across the ride. Power remains constant at a target wattage and heart rate doesn't really give me too much as it seems (for me) to be all about leg muscles and how they're travelling not heart muscle.

My bike times are comparable now on a flat TT than when I was much, much fitter and stronger. If only I'd learnt this earlier! :(

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Theres a cafe latte bike rider I know who has all the kit. HRM, GPS, Stop watch, power meter, iphone and some unit attached to his handlebars that I have absolutely no idea what it is nor what it does.

Only rides 7km to the coffee shop and then 7km home afterwards.

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Theres a cafe latte bike rider I know who has all the kit. HRM, GPS, Stop watch, power meter, iphone and some unit attached to his handlebars that I have absolutely no idea what it is nor what it does.

Only rides 7km to the coffee shop and then 7km home afterwards.

 

 

Is it you, AJ?

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I strap on my Garmin purely not to have the need to mess around with wheel magnets. Makes running a disc or deep dish wheel hassle free. For training, a power metre would be great.

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I use a garmin for pace on the run, had a pace strategy for the busso run. Also planned to use HR and cadence on the bike at Busso

When i turned it on pre race Garmin died, bike computer also died part way around the course. I did the whole race with no feedback.

 

Biggest thing was i didn't panic without the feedback. I don't know if i would have been faster, but my ride would have been better paced; considerable fade over the 3 laps.

 

I actual like the analysis afterwards that i can get. I would like to know where i slowed on the run, but also could i have potentially run harder towards the end. This is information that the Garmin collects, and would help me get better

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In response to Mr PIS's original post. I race with a watch, look down at swim exit and race finish.

 

 

That's very close to what I do. I race (and train) with an old 8 lap Timex IM watch. Look at it at swim exit, then don't look at it again until half way through or last lap of the run.

 

Toys wise I've had most except power on the bike (I do have power on the trainer but it's not that accurate). But now I just the most basic of wireless pooters on the roadie and nothing at all on the TT bike. I don't like the clutter on the bars. If there was something I could wear on my wrist that would give e the cycling info with half a ton of sensors hanging off the bike I might go that way. I haven't really looked at the market place lately so not sure what's out there.

 

I feel like RPE works well for me, but would be interested to give it a full season with all the toys, but that would be an expensive experiment.

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i just sold one of the Timex gps/hr watches to my housemate for a weeks rent

 

he like gadgets that dont make him any faster and i like not paying rent....worked out well

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I have only been in the sport for around 18 months and was keen to get as much help as i could get, so i went out and purchased a Garmin 310XT. For the past year or so, i have religously relied upon the data from the watch to assist me in both training and racing. Having said that, I raced at 70.3 Canberra this past weekend and i had i think what is called an Epiphany (?).

 

I had countless discussions with my coach about setting up nutrition alerts, cadence and pace thresholds and after training with the Garmin for the best part of the last 12 months, i would never ever entertain the idea of doing a race without it.

 

So race day 70.3 Canberra arrives, am waiting for my swim start, last minute check of my Garmin, Multisport mode selected, am ready to go. Rounding the last swim marker with only 200mtrs or so to go and i felt a tap on my wrist by another swimmer, i thought the worst and confirmed it when i took a glimpse at my left wrist - yep, my Garmin 310XT had been knocked off the quick release strap and was / is now lying at the bottom of lake burley griffin. All i could think of as i swam the last few mtrs, was how the heck am i going to survive the rest of this race with no Garmin ?

 

I spent the entire bike leg asking riders what the local time was, i had no idea of my bike speed, nor cadence, no alerts of when to take in nutrition and come the run leg, i had no idea of my pace. I was racing on how i felt, not what the Garmin would have told me, speed up, slow down, take in your nutrition.

 

I finished the race with a 30 minute PB from the last time i did the distance at Shep in Nov 2010, my first HIM. Now i know that my fitness has improved, but in hindsight, i am strong in the opinion that because i wasn't able to focus on data and gadgets, i had a better race. I will be catching up with my coach in the next day or so to discuss this very point.

 

So i guess in summary, what i think i have learnt from this experience is that the 'gadgets' are great in training, but come race day, go with how you feel and you never know, you may just be surprised at how well you do, i know i was.

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the best gadget i use to gauge my race is a 16 yo kid. If I can smoke someone exactly a third my age, despite the fact he gets out of a 400m swim 50m ahead of me, i'm still doin OK for an old fart :P

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i just sold one of the Timex gps/hr watches to my housemate for a weeks rent

 

he like gadgets that dont make him any faster and i like not paying rent....worked out well

 

 

As long as you know where to draw the line. BJs for Power Bars is NOT ok :lol:

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Have never raced or trained with power but I will when the Garmin/Look vector pedals come out.

 

The Garmin 310/500 has been awesome. There is no fudging run training, bike training etc. I have a coach who uses training peaks so he can see exactly what I am doing when I upload the data from each session, Sometimes when you feel like a busted arse you compare a few activities and realise that it isnt as bad as you think and you are improving etc.

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This maybe a stupid question, but do the pro race with one?

 

It is one of the great ironies of our sport that it tends to be slower people are the more they rely on tech gadgets to tell them how they are going.

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It is one of the great ironies of our sport that it tends to be slower people are the more they rely on tech gadgets to tell them how they are going.

 

 

 

I'd put myself into this category. But I'm so because I can only train 6-8hrs a week (I can get some 10-12's in from time to time when I've squirreled enough pink stamps). However, my view, I would be even slower without the techie aids (and I have all of them).

 

Could I train more? - No, I'm at my desk from 730am to 8-9pm five days a week. At weekends I have family duties to take care of.

Do I squeeze more out of every single second of training I have as a result of toys? - Yes

Do I work with a techie coach to help make the most of the toys and spend a lot of airplane time educating myself to use them better? - Yes

Because of the income that comes with 60hrs a week as a desk jockey is the cost of the toys a rounding error? - Yes

Do I do everything else I could to maximise the return on limited time? - Yes. 121 swim coaching in a flume, regular lab testing, bike fit - you name it

 

I think you'll find a lot of other slower people with toys in the same boat.

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I used HR for my first few seasons, but never on the run in races, just the bike.

I found it a bit distracting anyway, so stopped using it altogether and just went with speedo and cadence on the bike and kept track of km splits on the run and went by PE.

I recently bought an SRM but am not really obsessed with looking at the files its moreso to assist in highlighting what a bludger i have been on the bike for all these years.

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So after reading the recent busso bike thread, and JDE'scomment that he looked at his watch and thought too fast on the run, after watching his powermetre for 180km on the bike etc etc, does anyone just get on the bike and ride hard, then get off and run hard? I dont own a powermetre, never race with a running watch etc, thoughts?

 

 

Clayton Fettell!

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Guest C.C

It is one of the great ironies of our sport that it tends to be slower people are the more they rely on tech gadgets to tell them how they are going.

 

 

Something you made up or based upon fact?

 

I don't see too many BOP MOP athletes riding around with 4k powertap race wheels or SRM cranks!

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It is one of the great ironies of our sport that it tends to be slower people are the more they rely on tech gadgets to tell them how they are going.

 

 

Funny, cause a recent sprint distance race I noticed all but one of the elite field of 15 had a powermeter on their bike

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I am only just getting back into a bit of training after 5 years of being relatively sedentary and I would say that the Garmin 500 paired with Strava has proved very motivating thus far in that it is easy to see what I am doing and more importantly a week with no training looks shocking and prompts me to get out of bed.

 

If you were serious about actually training and racing then no question a powermeter would be ahead of race wheels for me. I bought some quark cranks which are a cool widget and should prove even more useful when I step up from general re-conditioning towards actual race training and/or racing.

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planned to do 3x 20 min at FTP at the park, when I got there the PT battery had died, yes I did feel guttted and still went out and did the sets trying to maintain the perceived effort of FTP. was still within 30 sec of my usual time for the 3 laps. So still trained gadget free and all. Just use the gadgets to your benefits and dont be a slave to them simple really.

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I race with a watch sometimes? :unsure:

 

I too am not a fan of the gadgets, too much time and money is wasted there. That and i is two dum to use them gizmodes :lol:

 

 

I just learn every time I race, I figure I improved my IM time by 1.5 hrs in 8 weeks and three races, each time learning a bit more about myself, I in another 6 races time I should have the world record if this form improves........

 

Who cares, go out and race and enjoy it how you want to. I like going past people with all the bells and whistles (you do a lot of passing when you're as shit in the water as me1

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Something you made up or based upon fact?

 

I don't see too many BOP MOP athletes riding around with 4k powertap race wheels or SRM cranks!

 

 

Clearly based on careful statistical analolysis, being the process of producing statistics from one's rectal area.

 

This is a pretty cool thread I reckon, but only because JDE copped some shit for being a gadget nerd.

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When I started as a 40+ novice in 05 I went the 'Shorto' method and still do. No watch, no monitors of any sort, no power meters ect.

Just cadence "thing" on the bike to stay at 85ish RPM and my wedding ring. :schnauz:

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Theres a cafe latte bike rider I know who has all the kit. HRM, GPS, Stop watch, power meter, iphone and some unit attached to his handlebars that I have absolutely no idea what it is nor what it does.

Only rides 7km to the coffee shop and then 7km home afterwards.

 

That is excellent - he is supporting the sport and industry by spending money on bike gear from bike shops.

Good for him - if I had the cash, I would be driving a Ferrari - even tho I won't be able to use it's true capabilities.

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Never race with anything, have a simple bike computer and garmin 310xt which I run with only because I like to know how far I went. Don't look at pace when I'm trail running because it scares me how slow I can actually go!

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20 years ago (late teens) when i was at school / uni...no responsibility etc...i probably trained about 25 hrs a week, for sprint events

Now wife and i both have full time jobs, got 2 young kids, house to maintain...lucky to get 15hrs a week in (training for Oly, hoping to go to long course / HIM)...also need to nurse kness...

Use the garmin/HR/cadence etc data to help me train smarter...it works for me...

I haven't gone down the power meter path, but if my knees survive another year, i might just think about it... :)

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I use a GPS watch, its great to help hold pace and also to help hold back at the start of the race (in a run).

 

I did a sprint tri at raby bay on the weekend and my watch never started which I didnt notice until I got off the bike. I did my first run with no idea about what pace I was holding but didnt really care. Managed to get withing 5sec of my goal time for the run still. Ill definitely still be wearing it in training and races though as it is a great tool to know when my pace starts dropping and I need to dig deep.

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The most important gadget I own: alarm clock!

I don't race with a watch (or HRM). I used to look at my swim time when I came out of the water, but found that this often just depressed me and upset the rest of my race. Swim times can be massively different depending on conditions and actual length of the course.

 

I do have a Garmin Edge 500 on my bike because I like uploading cool maps when I ride in interesting places. It's useful in multi-lap races when I'm not sure if I've counted correctly, but that's really about the extent of it for me.

 

I do think that tools such as power meters and HRMs are valuable for getting the best out of your training and racing for IM, and to some extent HIM. However for Olympic distance and shorter, I think it's more about racing with your gut - how much are you prepared to hurt? I don't want to see evidence that I'm in the red zone!

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I use a GPS watch.... Ill definitely still be wearing it in training and races though as it is a great tool to know when my pace starts dropping and I need to dig deep.

 

 

See, I just don't get that. I know when my pace starts dropping - it's when I'm moving slower. In a sprint race (or OD) I need to did deep at all times.

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I use a GPS watch, its great to help hold pace and also to help hold back at the start of the race (in a run).

 

 

That's my issue too, going too hot at the start of a run.

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Its an interesting question.... for me I have a few gadgets and its fun to look at them, I probably dont use them the way I should.

 

If I had to pair it down to nuffink on a cost basis, I could survive with a set of good scales, and an accurate stopwatch. Oh and that alarm clock, getting out of bed is the key.

 

Combine that with your 'go to' times and courses, so you have to have a TT circuit and some times on climbs in your area as benchmarks, learning to push yourself on your own and finding out what you are made of. Too many people can not train on their own and cannot push themselves need someone to hold their hand.

 

In terms of power gadgets the price will come down eventually, at the moment I reckon a good set of PT wheels is the go in terms of cost effectiveness if you have more than one bike. I find the biggest benefit of the PM for me is on the ergo as that is one of my 'go to' workouts, when I can reach a certain number then I know Im going okay, if I cant reach that number I have a frank assessment of my fitness.

 

In terms of running all you need is a watch and a 400m track a set of 1k repeats will give you a very accurate assessment of your running fitness, ditto with swimming just go and do a few 200 or 400 efforts.

 

Parky is very right when he says HR is excellent, in IM or HIM if you use it as a tool to not go over your head on the bike in particular you will find this immensely beneficial in the run.... I used to ride at a certain HR in longer races and although I wasnt much good at IM I did do pretty well in 3/130/30 and numerous HIM/long course races using this approach and often found myself well back off the bike but passing many superior runners on foot who had ridden too hard.

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I might add in terms of racing bunch racing I never look at it, on the track in pursuit I look at speed and/or cadence and TTing on the road I find HR is a good number still after all these years - if I am on a good one I can punch my HR up high and it hurts good, when I feel shit this is generally reinforced by my not being able to get my HR up high....

 

You have to know yourself. You only get this experience by training on your own and pushing yourself.

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See, I just don't get that. I know when my pace starts dropping - it's when I'm moving slower. In a sprint race (or OD) I need to did deep at all times.

 

 

I run alot more than compete in tri's so in a half marathon for example a 5sec difference in pace per km can make a massive difference between hitting the goal time and missing it by a minute or two, I know this would be the same in an IM or HIM but this is just my experience. Also the start of the races I find it very easy to go out a little quickly, I found myself running alongside a bloke in the half marathon in Melbourne this year thinking how familiar he looked but couldn't work out where I knew him from. When it clicked it was Steve Monaghetti, I checked my pace and backed off very quickly. Although I think it was safe to assume I didnt need to check my watch to know I was going out a little hard in that situation.

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I do not have a power meter, Garmin or HRM. I just use a basic bike computer (current, av and max speed, time) and a watch with stop watch function for the run.

 

Many of my running and IM PBs have been recorded without a watch.

 

I agree with Peter that they can be great tools for some to develop a sense of pace and perceived effort. The flip side is that I have met some athletes who never develop either because of their reliance on the technologies. When the equipment is lost or fails, they either cannot, or believe they cannot, race effectively.

 

Like so much in the sport and life in general, it is about balance.

Edited by Paul Every

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Train like an engineer

 

Race like an artist

 

courtesy AP

 

still trying to implement it in real life.

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A power meter opened my eyes to what I was & wasn't doing on the bike. Along with the training benefits, there are also (as mentioned) the pacing benefits, particularly in longer races. I would have cooked the bike in NZ, no doubt, if I wasn't paying attention to my PM.

 

Not to mention using it for postional adjustments on the bike, etc. Not everyone lives near a wind tunnel.

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