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Swim Sets - I feel the need for speed!

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Hi All,

 

Just seeking some advice on swim sets that will help me pick up some speed. I can comfortably swim 2km in the pool in around 42min or swim the 1km in around 21-23min. Fitness wise, i complete the distances comfortably but what i want to do is swim them faster.

 

Does anybody have any swim sets to offer up that is focused on increasing speed ?

 

All advice appreciated.

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Straight swims are not only boring they are not maximising the potential fitness gains relative to distance/time in pool.

 

Caveat I am not a fish, but am improving. 1k PB is in the mid 14mins, 2k Swim split at Huski was 29:XX

 

If I was to set a set for 2k's I would have 400/500m of EASY!! (most people go way too hard) warmup. Then I would do another 400/500m of drills and kick/pull sets.

 

Main sets staples:

 

10x100m on a cycle that gives you about 10s rest

5x200m on " " 20-30s rest

 

A few more random ones I like

 

5x300m (first 100 flat out balls to the wall, second 100 try and maintain pace, although not swimming as fast because f'ed from first 100, 3rd 100 at a recovery peace) Its a siri lindley special

 

a good one Macca posted was 4x (4x100m on a cycle that gives 20/30s of rest and then 200m pull) it is deceptivly hard as the 100's are very very hard the recovery means you can smash out the next one hard as well.

 

Some good race simulation ones are 400s with the first and last 100 very hard and the middle 200 steady.

 

IM's are always good.

 

And Butterfly is even better. There is a reason why Butterflyers and very good fresstylers and visa versa.

 

P.S. bump up your sessions to 3k's. If your gonna drive a mile to get there and then spend so much wasted time getting ready etc. might as well have fewer but longer sessions. They are hard at first (mentally and physcially) give it a month or two and you will be fine.

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I am no expert, but speak from experience coming from a similar spot to you. November 1 last year I did a 2km TT and it took 41:35. Last week I did a 2km TT in 37:40.

 

In the past year I have still only averaged probably 2.5 sessions a week up to a longest session of about 2.5km but I have added a shit load of intensity, This one came straight from fluro and is possibly the hardest session I have ever done.

 

Swim 5 sets of 4 x 50m. For each fifty go as hard as you can, with a reasonable recovery, then after each set of 4 have a good recovery.

 

For me at the start of the year it was something like 5 x 4 x 50 taking 50 seconds for the 50 then leaving on 1:15 with a 1 min break between sets and felt like my arms were about to fall off. About a month ago I did this session as 46 secs for the 50s leaving on the minute and no longer felt like dying at the end.

 

I have gone to doing some longer sets at the moment as a preparation for HIM in a month, but once that is over the 50's will be back on the radar.

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If you want to up your speed u need technique first. Get a swim coach to have a look at your technique.

A fully functional adult swimming slow likely has shithouse technique

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Straight swims are not only boring they are not maximising the potential fitness gains relative to distance/time in pool.

 

one point of view- dont overlook your basic muscular endurance

 

no substitute for consistent km in any of the 3 disciplines

consistent milage over the years will always get results

 

absolutely nothing wrong with just swimming more and getting in a swimming without stopping on a regular basis- as well as all that other stuff you are on about

 

how many people have you met who consistently logged 15-20K+ per week and did not get faster?

 

any short term gains you might get through specific speed work will be largely insignificant in proportion to your basic muscular endurance

 

going by your avatar and what you've said you just need to swim more- 2m/100m -is not someone with a "speed" problem its an endurance and technique problem

 

"getting through 2km comfortably at 2m+/100m" is not what I would call sufficient muscular endurance to swim faster

 

coach@ would laugh at you if you told him that was the right base to swim faster from

 

swim more and go get some paid advice on technique- forget "speed" sets -you have to crawl first

Edited by Jimmy C
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I think there is a place for a consistent swim (I know Brett Sutton makes his IM people do a 3.8k continuous swim weekly) but I think you are confusing intervals sessions as designed to increase speed, rather they are aimed at increasing fitness. doing 10x100m on 10s rest you will probably be pushing yourself harder than just doing a 1k continous swim.

 

These sets should be part, of a preferably longer swim set. as said in first post bump up from 2k's to 3k's. And MASSIVE X2 to Yoyo's comment re tecnique.

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Massive believer in Intervals as part of a longer set. Personally this has worked very well for me inthe last six months. However I recently did a fair bit o technique work and wow it has made everything feel so much easier.

 

I think 50's are good to an extent but long intervals are needed as triathlon swims are never only 50 meters.

 

My favourite set is a 4 x 600 as follows:

 

12 x 50 at faster than Sprint Distance pace on a cycle giving 15-20sec rest

 

6 x 100 at Sprint distance pace on a cycle giving 10sec rest

 

3 x 200 at OD pace on a cycle giving 15-20sec rest

 

1 x 600 at HIM pace

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If you want to race fast in the water - then you have to train fast. Forget base. 15 to 20k a week is chicken feed to swimmers.

 

Your sessions should include (4 x a week);

 

1. Endurance set. Never over 400m and done at 80% MHR Ideally 5 x 400 leaving after 20 secs rest. Then a set of 5 to 8 200 set at 85% with paddles pullbuoy and 15 secs rest

2. Long set of threshold 100s ideally 20 to 25 with 10 rest at 85-90% MHR

3. A set of 100s or 50s with long rest. Swimming as close to max as possible

4. Lactate tolerance set of 50s or 100s. Moderate rest and about 2 k or so of them so there is enough lactate build up to achieve the ideal training effect.

 

Swimming 3.8 straight is mental not physical. Surprised Sutto would prescibe that ?????????

 

1. Speed first

 

2. Endurance (defined as sustained speed) follows through consistency and frequency

 

3. Technique always

Edited by Coach@triathlon

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Oh look, another thread about swimming. I can smell the fear with first races of the season already upon us!

 

Swimming "fast" is all relative. Some people say I swim fast but then I get into a lane with some others and they blow me away and I go home thinking I have no business being near a pool.

 

Coach@'s approach has always been about consistency, week in week out, no "off season" and no whinging about how slow you feel. Get in and go is my advice and do it often. You can't hurt yourself doing 4 plus swim sessions a week, no need to "recover", over time your technique will improve as you gain a better "feel" for the water and so will your muscular and aerobic endurance levels.

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U can hurt yourself if ur technique is in the gutter.

 

For years i struggled with my swimming, in some ways i guess i still do a bit, but i sorted out my technique and this season i am leading out swims in races and getting out in the first couple. If u'd told me that 4-5 yrs ago i would have laughed at you.

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Hi All,

 

Just seeking some advice on swim sets that will help me pick up some speed. I can comfortably swim 2km in the pool in around 42min or swim the 1km in around 21-23min. Fitness wise, i complete the distances comfortably but what i want to do is swim them faster.

 

Does anybody have any swim sets to offer up that is focused on increasing speed ?

 

All advice appreciated.

 

 

so lets say you want to swim a 20min 1km. That means you need to hit 2.00 min per 100.

 

So I'd be working on sets of at least 15 100's hitting 2min and leaving on 2.20. That 20 sec rest should be fairly challenging especially by the 6 or 7th rep

 

I'm not a swim coach but i guess thats what the coach is referring to as your endurance set...............comments coach?

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Swimming 3.8 straight is mental not physical. Surprised Sutto would prescibe that ?????????

 

In the IMTalk podcast he said that he had everyone do over-distance sets (mentioned 20x200 or 40x100) that at least matched expected race distance, not that he had them do 3.8k straight

3. Technique always

 

How do you know your technique is good though?

I know some days I get in the water, and do have a good "feel" and swim decent with little effort, but on other days it all feels wrong and I really suck, but I just dont know what Im doing differently between the two!

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In the IMTalk podcast he said that he had everyone do over-distance sets (mentioned 20x200 or 40x100) that at least matched expected race distance, not that he had them do 3.8k straight

 

How do you know your technique is good though?

I know some days I get in the water, and do have a good "feel" and swim decent with little effort, but on other days it all feels wrong and I really suck, but I just dont know what Im doing differently between the two!

 

 

Know what you're saying. I have a terrible technique due to lots of reasons....I mean you should concentrate on technique all the time...doesn't mean you are swimming well but at least be mindful of relaxing, long catch and elbows up. Some days it coems together sometimes you feel like a rag doll. That's swimming

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so lets say you want to swim a 20min 1km. That means you need to hit 2.00 min per 100.

 

So I'd be working on sets of at least 15 100's hitting 2min and leaving on 2.20. That 20 sec rest should be fairly challenging especially by the 6 or 7th rep

 

I'm not a swim coach but i guess thats what the coach is referring to as your endurance set...............comments coach?

 

 

Yeh, you need to build endurance AT the speed you want to race at. Slow swimming makes you swim slow. It is non-weight bearing as an activity so you can hurt yourself regularly without much grief. If you want endurance for an IM swim then a set of 30-35 x 100s at your race pace with 10-15 secs rest is plenty. In fact, that was Dave Scott's test set that he used to gauge his speed/endurance before a big race.

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I think there is a place for a consistent swim (I know Brett Sutton makes his IM people do a 3.8k continuous swim weekly) but I think you are confusing intervals sessions as designed to increase speed, rather they are aimed at increasing fitness. doing 10x100m on 10s rest you will probably be pushing yourself harder than just doing a 1k continous swim.

I DOUBT THIS TO BE TRUE, A 4 KM STRAIGHT SWIM IS BORING AS BATSHIT AND NOT MUCH GOOD FOR ANYTHING REALLY.

These sets should be part, of a preferably longer swim set. as said in first post bump up from 2k's to 3k's. And MASSIVE X2 to Yoyo's comment re tecnique.

 

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If you want to up your speed u need technique first. Get a swim coach to have a look at your technique.

A fully functional adult swimming slow likely has shithouse technique

 

Gotta agree, i've always "swam". But recently been wondering why everybody else has an effortless technique.

What i realised is that i've been concentrating on my above water technique and been completely ignoring my actual stroke. My arms were passing through the water very efficiently - unfortunately i wasn't really pushing against the water to propel myself forward (for lack of better terminology).

So now i'm actually concentrating on the underwater stroke, horizontal-ish hand beneath body in a kind of "S" pattern as opposed to a vertical hand beside body. It felt weird initially because i was sore in places i've never been sore from swimming before - but it definitely feels faster.

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I'm really unworthy of being near a pool so my advice is based on the experience of a nonce swimmer going from can't swim to current 1k time of 16min without any outside help (I still haven't grown big enough coconuts to approach a squad). It's also based on real world MOP training schedule. ie. only have about 7-10 hours a week to dedicate to training.

 

My biggest gains in speed came when:

 

1. I swam at least 3 times a week constantly, all year, increasing to 4 over winter when I was doing less cycling.

2. I started doing sets of 100's with 20-30s rest and 100 EBEH sets (Easy, Build, Easy Hard) with 10s rest They went from 2m 100's down to 1:30 leaving on 2 over 2 years

3. I did a couple of blocks of swimming 6 days in one week, by the end of each block you actually start to feel natural in the water, I guess that's why real swimmers swim so often. I remember Coach@ or AP saying never go 2 days without a swim to keep that feel.

4. Concentrating on technique, I started doing the warmups and cools downs with bilateral breathing and tried to even out my body roll and stroke when breathing to my unco side (still trying to work on that). I also tried to eliminate the pause when I glide and made sure I was pulling backward as soon as possible with my elbow above the wrist, and did away with the S to give a long straight pull. Also trying to keep my head a bit more down and feet close together

5. When it comes to race speed I reckon the best sets I've done are the pyramid sets (not sure if that's what the call them). start of 300,275,250,......50,25 That gives you almost 2k altogether, but you gradually increase the speed of each rep, until your flat out for the 50 and 25. As long as you concentrate on form (cause you'll be thrashing like your drowning by the end if you don't).

 

I don't think the long continuous stuff did much except give me confidence I could make the distance, although that can be counter-productive when your feeling like crap at the end too.

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nobody on this entire thread is swimming fast

 

why make it so complicated?

 

get in a pool 4-5 times a week and lay your arms over

 

break it into whatever goal sized chunks you like

 

those who have been around for a while will realise a coach just uses all those whiteboard markings to distract you from the 2 or 3 main objectives

 

-get 3-4km of swimming done

-make it interesting and social enough that they can charge $10

-have enough opportunities to provide feedback (if needed)

 

i know plenty of people who just dive in swim for an hour and go just fine

if you cant enjoy 1hr of swimming on your own at aerobic pace you need to find another sport

 

once you can cook eggs on toast 3-4 days a week for a few months maybe think about trying to make things with complicated arrangements

 

its quite sad people who cant just knock out a run or a swim without a sheet of instructions and intervals to provide them with entertainment. I know people who cant get a single one of their sessions done without a squad or someone accompanying them

 

2m/100 pace is like running 7m/km- if someone ran that slow you'd stick to the basics of build some volume before worrying about trying to force the pace at all.

 

why is it that everyone thinks swimming is different in that we need an excuse to stop every 1 min or 5 mins? especially with such underdeveloped aerobic capacity

 

give the dude all the 100's you like if thats motivation- just needs to swim more

Edited by Jimmy C
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Agree with Jimmy's pragmatism in part....I haven't swum in a squad with a coach for 15 years and still go ok.

 

Intervals is where it's at in swimming. Lots of them regularly. It gets down to that and technique basically. Over time you will improve to a point. Once that point is reached you will know whether you can swim or not....don't go looking for other secrets that don't exist.

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if you cant enjoy 1hr of swimming on your own at aerobic pace you need to find another sport

 

its quite sad people who cant just knock out a run or a swim without a sheet of instructions and intervals to provide them with entertainment. I know people who cant get a single one of their sessions done without a squad or someone accompanying them

 

Holding good technique in swimming for non-swimmers takes a fair bit of effort. Breaking it into 100's means you can re-focus on technique each time. I've seen plenty of people down at the pool knocking out lap after lap and putting the totals up on the leader board, and they aren't getting any quicker. The people I know who are getting quicker are the ones doing intervals.

 

Same goes for cycling or running, it's basic training technique, you don't have to be a coach to know if you train the same speed all the time your never going to learn to go faster. It's not just fitness, there are bio mechanics involved in feeling comfortable at speed.

 

And yes people doing 1:30 100 is slow for a swimmer, but have some context, when a person swimming 2min pace asks how to go faster, they are asking how to get to 1:30-1:45, not how do I learn to swim 1:00 pace.

 

The comparison between 2m k's and 7min run pace is an exaggeration, it's probably closer to 6 for the average triathlete from a non-swimming background.

Edited by alchemy

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Guest Gimili

Go to a squad, preferably with someone that knows a bit about swimming as oppossed to standing on a pool deck.

 

I opportunity swim alot these days due to work, mind you have only done one race and 1.5 squads in the last two weeks.

 

Two I like are 100 warm up, 20x 50 on 15 or 20 secs rest depending how I feel, time every 4th 50 to keep you honest, 100 warm down. Basically a smash fest.

 

The other is same warm up/ down, but a bit longer, 10x 50 times 4. Ist 10, max effort to 12.5, cruise to end, 5 sec rest, same concept, next 10 to halfway max effort, 10 sec rest, next 10 to 37.5 max effort, 15 sec rest, last 10, full length max effort, 20 secs rest. 100 warm down.

 

Smashfest aswell, good for your fitness and not having much time.

 

Make sure you wear sunscreen if swimming in the day.

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I'm really unworthy of being near a pool so my advice is based on the experience of a nonce swimmer going from can't swim to current 1k time of 16min without any outside help (I still haven't grown big enough coconuts to approach a squad)

 

Do it. :)

 

If you can swim consistent 1:30 pace you'll have no problem in the vast majority of tri squads.

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Do it. :)

 

If you can swim consistent 1:30 pace you'll have no problem in the vast majority of tri squads.

 

 

Actually I should say that I'm only talking about pool swimming, over summer I swim with a group in open water (ocean) and can happily swim for an hour without getting bored. It must be the pool that puts the zap on me.

 

On the squad thing I know I should join one, but they always seem to be swimming faster than me. I think it's the short rests between that get me. I can hold 1:30 100's but need at least 20-30s rest between each. I guess that's where a coach and squad comes in handy, it's learning about things like breathing sets and doing that wierd thing where they seem to stop mid pool dive down to the bottom do some knitting and then come up again a keep going.

Edited by alchemy

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Probably slightly off topic, but...How many people (apart from Alchemy who happened to mention while i was typing) do any open water swimming as part of their regular training program.

Just asking because swimming with swells and currents is a bit different to following a black line.

Edited by Timbo

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I try and fit in an open water swim once a week. Breaks up the punishment of the black line a bit and gets you in race mode.

 

On joining a squad - don't worry about how fast it looks. I think the problem is you are looking at the quickest of the quick in the lane near you. Most squad are broken up into groups who are around the same speed and skill level otherwise it wouldn't work. You'll be fine. Do it.

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I've seen plenty of people down at the pool knocking out lap after lap and putting the totals up on the leader board, and they aren't getting any quicker.

 

do they ever increase their total volume? do they ever work on technique?

how many have you met that swum consistently 15-20k + week after week and dont get better?

really its laughable we as triathletes seem to think 12 weeks of consistent effort is "logging up the leader board" when the runners talk about doing weekly 150km for 3 years and the swimmers 40k for 3 years to get any better

 

 

 

The people I know who are getting quicker are the ones doing intervals.

 

perhaps the "type" of people swimming "intervals" swim a hell of a lot more than those that don't?

 

swim more, get a coach, forget sets posted on transitions-- i would leave it at that IMHO

Edited by Jimmy C

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Probably slightly off topic, but...How many people (apart from Alchemy who happened to mention while i was typing) do any open water swimming as part of their regular training program.

Just asking because swimming with swells and currents is a bit different to following a black line.

 

pretty much none,

in saying that, do the odd ocean swimming race, if I go down the coast and the water is warm, will swim in jervis bay

also swim in the ocean pool at wollongong after christmas when the water gets warmer, that has as much chop as any "triathlon" swim.

 

most of our swims are at sparrow fart and the water is calm, more chop from a person going the other way then in an actual race..... would do more of it if the ocean was heated to 26 degrees but I am soft.

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I guess the "reward - effort" equation stinks when it comes to swimming. People want to see results and when you gain a miserable 5 seconds in your 100's after 6 months of smashing out sets three times a week it tends to put people off.

 

Also, the swim is the least of a triathlete's concerns and many only do enough swim training to get around the course and save the big gains for the bike and run.

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On review i am disappointed with the high amount of valid content i have provided in this thread....

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do they ever increase their total volume? do they ever work on technique?

how many have you met that swum consistently 15-20k + week after week and dont get better?

really its laughable we as triathletes seem to think 12 weeks of consistent effort is "logging up the leader board" when the runners talk about doing weekly 150km for 3 years and the swimmers 40k for 3 years to get any better

 

perhaps the "type" of people swimming "intervals" swim a hell of a lot more than those that don't?

 

swim more, get a coach, forget sets posted on transitions-- i would leave it at that IMHO

 

Jimmy C I can't argue with your points, because your both right and much better qualified to make them that I am. But your talking about unrealistic numbers for your average MOP triathlete in it for fitness and fun, and still interested in going a bit faster within their current constraints. We all know that any able bodied athlete should be able to train themselves to a 40min 10k or a 1 hr 40k TT or a sub 15min 1k. TU is forever telling us we should all be walking to sub 10:30 IM's. But the fact is most people on here can't do 15-20k of swimming a week consistently, at least without sacrificing a marriage and a child or two. I might be wrong, I might be just one of those people who aren't committed enough, but that's a huge number.

 

When someone swimming 21min's for 2 k asks what sets to do to get faster, you don't say swim 15-20k a week and you'll get faster. As seen by this thread plenty of people have gone from that pace to around the 1:30 mark on not that much swimming, by doing other stuff like intervals. We all know that if we swam 15-20k we'd be much better swimmers, and we also know we'd still not be the pimple on the bum of the 12 yo female squad swimmers in the next lane.

 

PS. Also Coaches cost a lot of money. I looked into it but given my goals, just couldn't justify it. I had much less trouble justifying spending the same money on my sons guitar lessons instead.

Edited by alchemy

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15k a week is plenty for any level of triathlete. Apart from 10-12 weeks a year, that's all macca or crowie do.

 

It's less than 4 hours a week. You do that in one ride on the bike if you are training for an IM.

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15k a week is plenty for any level of triathlete. Apart from 10-12 weeks a year, that's all macca or crowie do.

 

It's less than 4 hours a week. You do that in one ride on the bike if you are training for an IM.

 

 

exactly its is not much at all and the secret is its actually brilliant for your riding and running as well (3x4K+1x3K=not a huge investment)

particularly as we age swimming is what keeps an old triathletes body riding and running fast

people look at the time difference on their swim only but those efficiency gains go the whole way through a race

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"particularly as we age swimming is what keeps an old triathletes body riding and running fast

people look at the time difference on their swim only but those efficiency gains go the whole way through a race"

 

There's a lot of truth here

 

A hell of a lot of older athletes could benefit a lot more from swimming an extra session and dropping a run session - dodge a few injuries as well :shy:

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Question, how does this efficiency from swimming work for the bike and run. The specificity principle is pretty much universally accepted and proven.

 

I

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In simple terms, lets say you have 1000 heart beats saved for a race.

 

A good swimmer may use 200, leaving him 800 left.

 

A poor swimmer may use 400, only leaving him 600 left.

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Yeh, you need to build endurance AT the speed you want to race at. Slow swimming makes you swim slow. It is non-weight bearing as an activity so you can hurt yourself regularly without much grief. If you want endurance for an IM swim then a set of 30-35 x 100s at your race pace with 10-15 secs rest is plenty. In fact, that was Dave Scott's test set that he used to gauge his speed/endurance before a big race.

 

 

Slow swimming does not make you swim slow. But ONLY swimming slowly without any faster work might. ;-)

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I think what IS true about what Brett prescribes might just surprise you.

And by the sounds of it, it might just bore you shitless, too. ;-)

Edited by MJK

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15k a week is plenty for any level of triathlete. ......

......

It's less than 4 hours a week.

 

Like hell it's less than 4 hours! :shock:

Bloody swimmers! :taz:

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15k a week is plenty for any level of triathlete. Apart from 10-12 weeks a year, that's all macca or crowie do.

 

It's less than 4 hours a week. You do that in one ride on the bike if you are training for an IM.

 

 

15k based on a guy whose race pace is 2min/100 is going to be at least 5 hours a week, probably more like 5.5 by the time you allow for some rest between intervals. I know, as that is about where I am pace wise.

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A hell of a lot of older athletes could benefit a lot more from swimming an extra session and dropping a run session - dodge a few injuries as well :shy:

 

 

The thing is AP it's just not a time effective option....

 

Getting home and slapping on your shoes is an easy option, very time effective.

 

Jumping in a car, driving to the pool, parking, paying for a parking ticket, pool entry, getting changed, finding a lane, paying for pool fees, showering, changing again, driving home.....blah, blah, blah, turns a 40-60min swim into a 1.5-2hr outing......

 

Swimming more doesn't work, because swimming requires double the time for the time spent in the pool. Hence, it becomes even more important to make sure what you do when you swim COUNTS! Get rid of the fluff and focus on what it is you should be doing to swim faster........which basically comes down to swimming FASTER, work on that, simple

 

Unlike, running and riding which basically start and finishes from home.

 

To think that 15km PW of swimming is not alot......well just check triathlog...Number 1 swim triathlete on that site is currently averaging 9.3km PW..

 

Doing anything over 10km PW for extended periods of time is not a reality for most triathletes.

 

So look AT the sessions themselves and start making them more time effective would be and is the focus I place on athletes. If they can't find more time, then just friggin ride or run more :smile1:

 

fluro

Edited by fluro2au

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.

 

To think that 15km PW of swimming is not alot......well just check triathlog...Number 1 swim triathlete on that site is currently averaging 9.3km PW..

 

Doing anything over 10km PW for extended periods of time is not a reality for most triathletes.

 

So look AT the sessions themselves and start making them more time effective would be and is the focus I place on athletes. If they can't find more time, then just friggin ride or run more :smile1:

 

fluro

 

 

You make it sound impossible Paul. Doubling the swim time is way over the top. I pretty much swam 10-15km every week for 2 years. 3x squad sessions with Coach@ or his wife. 3-4km per session plus one swim of my own of 3km. All done 5.30-7am. The pool is 3km from home, I would leave home at 5.15am, swim and be home by 7.15. Compare with the fartarsery most people go through for a ride preparing 4 litres of solution to imbibe, pressing their calf-high socks, colour co-ordinating their outfit, calibrating their Pm etc etc. certainly takes me a lot longer to get ready for a ride than a swim.

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Guest Gimili

 

You make it sound impossible Paul. Doubling the swim time is way over the top. I pretty much swam 10-15km every week for 2 years. 3x squad sessions with Coach@ or his wife. 3-4km per session plus one swim of my own of 3km. All done 5.30-7am. The pool is 3km from home, I would leave home at 5.15am, swim and be home by 7.15. Compare with the fartarsery most people go through for a ride preparing 4 litres of solution to imbibe, pressing their calf-high socks, colour co-ordinating their outfit, calibrating their Pm etc etc. certainly takes me a lot longer to get ready for a ride than a swim.

 

yeah, but once you've done that for the ride, you got no time left to swim - lol

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You make it sound impossible Paul. Doubling the swim time is way over the top. I pretty much swam 10-15km every week for 2 years. 3x squad sessions with Coach@ or his wife. 3-4km per session plus one swim of my own of 3km. All done 5.30-7am. The pool is 3km from home, I would leave home at 5.15am, swim and be home by 7.15. Compare with the fartarsery most people go through for a ride preparing 4 litres of solution to imbibe, pressing their calf-high socks, colour co-ordinating their outfit, calibrating their Pm etc etc. certainly takes me a lot longer to get ready for a ride than a swim.

 

 

G'day Parky,

 

I think for most triathletes it is impossible. It just doesn't fit in with LIFE, and most peoples training logs reflect that. It's reality, swimming makes up a small % of a triathlon, yet has the potential to take up a big % of total training time. People, put that into perspective, because for triathletes, the number 1limiter is time. Finding even just one extra swim each week is just not as easy as ducking out for an extra run or ride. Some people make it happen, but honestly, based on experience, most can't and or are not prepared to.

 

If I exit a pool at 7.15am I wouldn't be home before 8.00am that is reality. For a run or ride, I'll be back at home at 7:16am. :shy:

 

fluro

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depends on where you are at to some extent Paul- development wise and geography

 

honing in on the original question 2m/100 is not the sort of people you are talking about with a "maintenance with quality" approach

 

at some stage you are going to have to have a campaign on it to fix it

 

little sympathy for people who keep plugging out the same swim times and use the standard "i do 3 sports" excuse

next time you get injured and cant run or bike -up your swim volume/swim twice a day and see what happens-

 

once you are down around the FOP pace (which is shit by swimmer standards) then you can maintain and work on sharpening the pencil approaches

 

for those of us close to many pools swimming can be very time efficient aerobic work-and safe too-i have a pool one minute from office and 5 mins from home

 

going back to the oldest most experienced triathlete on this thread-AP- says its whats going to also help you stay supple into older age

 

you might bang for buck get better results investing extra time elsewhere for a season or two but if you want to race for the next 20 you have to look after the rig

 

i suspect a lot of people who say they get not enough bang out of swimming 3-4x per week dont swim with any particular focus

 

give this guy who started the thread to coach@ or AP for 4 months make him show up 4-5x per week for 12-18mths and you'll find he has gone from BOP to MOP

 

from there he's good enough to maintain- by cutting back a bit and/or trading time for intensity

 

its going to take a lot longer for someone that slow to come back to reasonable times only swimming 2-3 per week

 

 

common element amongst all the fast dudes even the ones that swim 1x per week is that at some stage they put their head down and knocked out some "volume"

 

hard to use that term really because its not much compared to those who are serious about improving

 

i talked to Jackie Gallagher(for the gen Y on here she was a "fully sick" triathlete back in the 90's) once on a plane about coaching etc. At one time I think she did a bit of stuff with AP and apparently couldn't swim for crap in her earlier days (runner/du initially)

She told me she just put her head down and swum 30k+ every week until she got the problem sorted

she didnt seem to think there was any big breakthrough in her technique more just old hardarses that made her keep going up and down the pool and the rest fell into place with that

Edited by Jimmy C

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Maybe the swim averages on triathlog are skewed because the people actuallly doing the miles in the pool r out their doing them....

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In simple terms, lets say you have 1000 heart beats saved for a race.

 

A good swimmer may use 200, leaving him 800 left.

 

A poor swimmer may use 400, only leaving him 600 left.

 

I don't understand the heart beat way of measuring it. The heart continues to beat once I stop racing and I don't slow down because my heart is tired.

 

Is the analogy one where by being more efficient in the water I have used less energy?

 

As far as goes the 15 to 20 K per week, it can be done but it is not the most efficient use of time. If you have a real job forget a swim in office hours, no employer will let you have the time required to get anything meaningful done, by the time I factor in getting to the pool and back, changed etc I get 30 minutes at best, still 1500 metres I suppose that I was not getting before.

 

Evenings there is no pool space in Canberra, so that means getting up every weekday morning and knocking them out in the squad with maybe another swim on the weekend in the late afternoon. Yes it can be done if one wants to do it badly enough, but then runs and bikes need to be done as well.

 

It is doable, but very hard if you have a job where you have to be on the ball every day. When i swim 5 mornings a week, with a lunchtime run and bike sessions in the evening I can't bring my A game to work, but this is part of the sacrifice if we want to get better. At this stage I am not prepared to sacrifice my livelihood for a 5 min faster IM swim

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Heart beats are not a meaurement at all. Yes, it was just an analogy.

 

Maybe replace Heart Beats for Apples or Super Mario Endurance points.

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Heart beats are not a meaurement at all. Yes, it was just an analogy.

 

Maybe replace Heart Beats for Apples or Super Mario Endurance points.

Ok got the points matches etc makes sense that if I can go 1 hour at 50% effort instead of 90% effort I will be better placed for the bike and run.

 

Suppose I could accept that swimming itself offers little return in my overall time and just plan to swim at 70% effort ANC take whatever time that gives me which should see me to the bike with the same matches points for say 90 mins instead of 1 hour. Key is doing it at the target intensity

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