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Chinese Knock Off's

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I think you going with the knock of option is not the best idea.

 

I have 2 mates with TT bikes and they are ok, sure they look like a TT bike and they have worked fine for them, but to be honest I am not sure on the quality and responsiveness of the bikes. They look ok and they were cheap.

 

If you are on a budget and want a road bike I would consider a new or second hand Cannondale Caad 10 or Caad 9 or any of the Caad previous generations. They are Alloy frames but will out perform most top brands of Carbon products. On TT bikes, pic up a 2nd hand P2 from Cervelo, they are still one of the best bikes on the market and the less aggressive front end will be good for most people who are not super flexible. Even new the price has come down a lot on these or look at a lower spec Cannondale Slice or even the base model Trek is good value.

 

If you are only interested in riding carbon to keep your appearances and that is your main thought then get yourself a rip off Dogma. If you want a bike to perform in competition then put your money into a real bike brand.

 

Have you ever been to Thailand and bought cheap knock of running shoes, sure they look the same, but they will not last and they don't perform the same or for another analogy compare a BMW to a Kia......... thats right, not in the same category.

 

Thats my rant!

 

Gilly

 

 

 

How can a small rip off company match the design of a big company putting millions in R+D, they cant.

Edited by Gilliga

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I think you going with the knock of option is not the best idea.

 

I have 2 mates with TT bikes and they are ok, sure they look like a TT bike and they have worked fine for them, but to be honest I am not sure on the quality and responsiveness of the bikes. They look ok and they were cheap.

 

If you are on a budget and want a road bike I would consider a new or second hand Cannondale Caad 10 or Caad 9 or any of the Caad previous generations. They are Alloy frames but will out perform most top brands of Carbon products. On TT bikes, pic up a 2nd hand P2 from Cervelo, they are still one of the best bikes on the market and the less aggressive front end will be good for most people who are not super flexible. Even new the price has come down a lot on these or look at a lower spec Cannondale Slice or even the base model Trek is good value.

 

If you are only interested in riding carbon to keep your appearances and that is your main thought then get yourself a rip off Dogma. If you want a bike to perform in competition then put your money into a real bike brand.

 

Have you ever been to Thailand and bought cheap knock of running shoes, sure they look the same, but they will not last and they don't perform the same or for another analogy compare a BMW to a Kia......... thats right, not in the same category.

 

Thats my rant!

 

Gilly

 

 

 

How can a small rip off company match the design of a big company putting millions in R+D, they cant.

 

Millions in R and D to create a quirky shaped frame that has what performance advantage vs marketing/differentiation advantage?

 

Thai running shoes probably aren't made in the same factory or using the same materials that make your $250 ripoff retail shoe here in australia.

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Millions in R and D to create a quirky shaped frame that has what performance advantage vs marketing/differentiation advantage?

 

Thai running shoes probably aren't made in the same factory or using the same materials that make your $250 ripoff retail shoe here in australia.

 

 

Even if these bikes are coming out of the same factory how can you be certain of grade of carbon been used or quality control?

 

Like most thing, you can get something cheap that will do the job but if you really want a performance product you need to be prepared to pay for it.

 

Hope your fake Dogma looks nice outside the coffee shop after your 25km 1.5hrs ride this Sunday.

 

Gilly

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The chinese rip off have ben on the market long enough now to pretty much make everything you posted above obsolete Gilligia. They are actually extremely good value and good quality. For the record I ride a French bike these days but have had a couple of the rip offs in the past. Both of them I sold and are still going strong under their new owners.

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Even if these bikes are coming out of the same factory how can you be certain of grade of carbon been used or quality control?

 

Like most thing, you can get something cheap that will do the job but if you really want a performance product you need to be prepared to pay for it.

 

Hope your fake Dogma looks nice outside the coffee shop after your 25km 1.5hrs ride this Sunday.

 

Gilly

 

F#$k that's a bit fast and a bit long. More like a 1.5 hour coffee and a 25 minute ride. Will I choose my 10 year old steel roadie or my Azzurri?

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I think you going with the knock of option is not the best idea.

 

I have 2 mates with TT bikes and they are ok, sure they look like a TT bike and they have worked fine for them, but to be honest I am not sure on the quality and responsiveness of the bikes. They look ok and they were cheap.

 

If you are on a budget and want a road bike I would consider a new or second hand Cannondale Caad 10 or Caad 9 or any of the Caad previous generations. They are Alloy frames but will out perform most top brands of Carbon products. On TT bikes, pic up a 2nd hand P2 from Cervelo, they are still one of the best bikes on the market and the less aggressive front end will be good for most people who are not super flexible. Even new the price has come down a lot on these or look at a lower spec Cannondale Slice or even the base model Trek is good value.

 

If you are only interested in riding carbon to keep your appearances and that is your main thought then get yourself a rip off Dogma. If you want a bike to perform in competition then put your money into a real bike brand.

 

Have you ever been to Thailand and bought cheap knock of running shoes, sure they look the same, but they will not last and they don't perform the same or for another analogy compare a BMW to a Kia......... thats right, not in the same category.

 

Thats my rant!

 

Gilly

 

 

 

How can a small rip off company match the design of a big company putting millions in R+D, they cant.

 

I have been riding one of the cheap knock off TT bikes for a few years now (same frame that tobzalp used), during that time many of my friends have had warranty replacements on their Azzuri/Cervelo/QR at much pain to them due to cracking.

 

I managed the 24th fastest time on the bike at cairns, how much faster do you reckon I would have gone if I had spent another $3k on my frame?

 

I ride 25k to work, if you dont have anything useful to say, probably best you keep it to yourself and get back to lining the pockets of bike manufacturers whos frames are made in the same factories.

 

Rant over

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I have been reading a fair bit in other forums about these chinese frames. Now firstly THEY ARE NOT knock offs

 

there are a few that are Pinarello replicas sure but most manufacturers have 4-6 frames that are not copies and are not painted just plain old carbon black you can CHOOSE to paint them. So these are legitimate frames with warranty in some cases too.

 

People have been riding them for 4-5 years now and am yet to hear an overly negative review. The big brand names you so trust make their frames in the same factories and the testing is ALSO done in the same locations.

 

I really think they are a cool option for the budget conscious or those who love to build their own. The other think is you can have your own custom paint job and it will not cost you a bucket.

 

I will be ordering one just to try at 375 dollars it cost just a bit more than a service at my LBS.

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I have been riding one of the cheap knock off TT bikes for a few years now (same frame that tobzalp used), during that time many of my friends have had warranty replacements on their Azzuri/Cervelo/QR at much pain to them due to cracking.

 

I managed the 24th fastest time on the bike at cairns, how much faster do you reckon I would have gone if I had spent another $3k on my frame?

 

I ride 25k to work, if you dont have anything useful to say, probably best you keep it to yourself and get back to lining the pockets of bike manufacturers whos frames are made in the same factories.

 

Rant over

 

Great rant! (Nothing shuts people up more than having the runs on the board!)

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Had one of the Karbona TT's for a couple of years, and still use the 85mm wheels bought at the same time

 

Served me well, and at the price was also happy to throw it on the turbo

 

Do a search - there was lots of dicussion during the last naked frame debate

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Typical rich doctor...er physio :lol:

scarf wearing, moustachioed arcitect.

 

Although I still have my Ken Evans custom made TT steely in the garage! :lol:

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Guest C.C

I've had a Planet X stealth TT frame for 5 years and it's been faultless. Whilst not as cheap as some chinese knock-offs, you can still get frame, forks and seatpost for less than 1k delivered.

 

If you do the research you soon realise identical frames vary by thousands of $ depending upon whose stickers are used. 1 prime example is the top of the line Dedacciai road frame with integrated seatpost. $2200 from Wiggle with 'Dedacciai' branding, $3500 from Johns cycles in QLD, and $919 from Ribble with "Ribble" branding.

Edited by C.C

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I've had a Planet X stealth TT frame for 5 years and it's been faultless. Whilst not as cheap as some chinese knock-offs, you can still get frame, forks and seatpost for less than 1k delivered.

 

If you do the research you soon realise identical frames vary by thousands of $ depending upon whose stickers are used. 1 prime example is the top of the line Dedacciai road frame with integrated seatpost. $2200 from Wiggle with 'Dedacciai' branding, $3500 from Johns cycles in QLD, and $919 from Ribble with "Ribble" branding.

 

One of the frames doing the rounds at the moment is a planet x frame.

The frame I made my tri bike out of was painted up and sold for over twice as much as a bont branded bike...

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I have been riding one of the cheap knock off TT bikes for a few years now (same frame that tobzalp used), during that time many of my friends have had warranty replacements on their Azzuri/Cervelo/QR at much pain to them due to cracking.

 

I managed the 24th fastest time on the bike at cairns, how much faster do you reckon I would have gone if I had spent another $3k on my frame?

 

I ride 25k to work, if you dont have anything useful to say, probably best you keep it to yourself and get back to lining the pockets of bike manufacturers whos frames are made in the same factories.

 

Rant over

 

 

I think you must have not grasped my quote, I was suggesting there are other options if you are on a budget. I also noted that if you are after top top performance you need to spend money! It is the 1% gains you get when you are at the pointy end of the sport that count and make the money spent worth while. so sure you had a great bike split but was your ride a little rougher then say a slice and therefore took more out of your legs? or was your bike fit not quite right and thus you were not getting the best aero position? you can still ride fast but it might cost you on the run!

 

So I would still rather get a bike from a shop that is the right size, fit, comes with a warranty and after sales service. I have a great relationship with my local shop and they put a lot back into the local cycle and tri community. I have had some mixed bikes from many brands...my azzurri TT was good, my Kestrel was rubbish, I had a P3 for a while that was fantastic and my current tri bike Kuota TT is a the best bike I have ever had, I got it new from my shop but it is a 2 year old model so got a screaming deal on it! I would back older design and production from Kuota or Cervelo over Hik Lee garage LTD.

 

I was on a budget for my roadie about a year back so I got an alloy Cannondale CAAD Dura Ace that I purchased for $1000 second hand! so amazing product on a budget! So as you see, there are other options!

 

 

So what was your swim and run like in cainrs? If you wanna play who has the biggest penis I am more then happy to see you on the start line at Shep 70.3...shall we make it a date?

 

All the best,

 

Gilly

Edited by Gilliga

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What was your swim and run like? If you wanna play who has the biggest penis I am more then happy to see you on the start line at Shep 70.3...shall we make it a date?

 

All the best,

 

Gilly

 

Seriously, get over yourself.

 

The aim of forums like this is for people to share information. Someone has posted a question about frames, several people have put input into the conversation. Some for, some against.

 

If you are really that against it, then good for you. There are people that are really that for it. State your opinion and move on. There is no need to continue attacking people.

This type of behaviour is typical to primary school bullying. Someone who has no vested interest in a topic but needs to go in causing problems for others just to make themselves feel big.

 

Grow up. If someone buys a frame from China, they are happy and enjoy it. Then so be it.

 

Why do so many people take issue with others being happy?

 

Accept you have a different view and opinion and move along. What was a nice pleasant and informative thread does not need to be turned into your own personal bullying and ego boosting playground.

 

I managed the 24th fastest time on the bike at cairns, how much faster do you reckon I would have gone if I had spent another $3k on my frame?

 

Rant over

 

This - I have 88mm carbon rims. Are Zipp rims faster? Yes. Am I such a powerhouse on the bike that I would benefit from having Zipp wheels? NO! Am I happy? Yes! Should I be attacked for making my choice and being happy? No.

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i recently built one of these blank frames up for a customer. no problems with it other than the b/b needed to be re-tapped.

 

Put it on the trainer and it moved around like soft spaghetti. but the frame cost him about $400 landed, so at the end of the day still good value for money.

 

He's happy, the bike fitted him, and he now gets out 4 days a week instead of just weekends (even in this weather) and that's all that counts in my book.

 

Personally I prefer brand named bikes but I have a reputation to uphold.

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:lol: So please tell me about the wheels, I want 85 mm babies preferably clinchers. Any recommendations of feedback on the Chinese deep wheels. Do they work?, are they constructed to last past several K's of A.G riding. My wife will not allow me 2+k for real ZIPPS.

 

Cheers :lol:

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I'll send you some info on the wheels. I currently use the 20mm tubular carbons on my cyclocross bike, lots of off road work and light and straight. Also use 50mm carbon clinchers on my road bike in Christchurch, pretty much always off road after the earthquake these days! but still solid. I am only 63kgs though.

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Hey Gilligan, are you sure you want to go up against the Ninjaman?? If you can't go sub 4.40 at 70.3, don't bother turning up, as he would have you for breakfast....

 

But then again, you might be one of those "Pros", that now race AG.

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Does anyone know the frame model code (ie FM015 etc) from hong fu etc that is comparable (i.e strikingly similar) to the P3?

 

The carbonzone (ebay) frame TT01 is pretty close, but with a different head tube. I think it is also known as the FM018 from Hong Fu.

 

Here's some pics of mine: TT01

 

Still need to finalise the fit and cut the tube.

Edited by lucky7

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I think some triathletes miss the point of bikes a bit and take on to much of a road mentality. As you are TTing is position not number 1 ? followed by wheels ? followed by helmet ? with the frame coming in 4th ?

 

Having a stiff frame is maybe not as important as it is in a road race, you are not accelerating and sprinting on it. Rythmical aero riding is the key so the frame should be fine as a Chinese rip off.

 

It all depends on what you use your bike for.

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I think you must have not grasped my quote, I was suggesting there are other options if you are on a budget. I also noted that if you are after top top performance you need to spend money! It is the 1% gains you get when you are at the pointy end of the sport that count and make the money spent worth while. so sure you had a great bike split but was your ride a little rougher then say a slice and therefore took more out of your legs? or was your bike fit not quite right and thus you were not getting the best aero position? you can still ride fast but it might cost you on the run!

 

So I would still rather get a bike from a shop that is the right size, fit, comes with a warranty and after sales service. I have a great relationship with my local shop and they put a lot back into the local cycle and tri community. I have had some mixed bikes from many brands...my azzurri TT was good, my Kestrel was rubbish, I had a P3 for a while that was fantastic and my current tri bike Kuota TT is a the best bike I have ever had, I got it new from my shop but it is a 2 year old model so got a screaming deal on it! I would back older design and production from Kuota or Cervelo over Hik Lee garage LTD.

 

I was on a budget for my roadie about a year back so I got an alloy Cannondale CAAD Dura Ace that I purchased for $1000 second hand! so amazing product on a budget! So as you see, there are other options!

 

 

So what was your swim and run like in cainrs? If you wanna play who has the biggest penis I am more then happy to see you on the start line at Shep 70.3...shall we make it a date?

 

All the best,

 

Gilly

 

Gilly,

 

I have no interest in getting in a Pi$$ing competition with you.

My swim was 1:03, my run was 4:01, I was backing up from port IM.

All this has no relevence though. I dont believe a more expensive frame would have made any difference.

 

Now it was you that wrote this wasnt it?

 

Hope your fake Dogma looks nice outside the coffee shop after your 25km 1.5hrs ride this Sunday.

 

That was where you lost any respect from me. And if I did buy a fake dogma to ride at 16 km per hour what difference does that make?

I know guys that have gone out and paid 12k on a bike to do a river loop once a week! Good for them if they want to spend that money.

You shouldnt write ridiculous lines like that if you want to have any respect.

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I'll send you some info on the wheels. I currently use the 20mm tubular carbons on my cyclocross bike, lots of off road work and light and straight. Also use 50mm carbon clinchers on my road bike in Christchurch, pretty much always off road after the earthquake these days! but still solid. I am only 63kgs though.

 

Could you please post your info here? or pm it to me also? I am looking at wheel options for the China roady I am building at the moment.

 

As an update also I had been told it would be 10-15 days for painting, then they would post it out...

A week later its in the post.

 

Sticks!

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Could you please post your info here? or pm it to me also? I am looking at wheel options for the China roady I am building at the moment.

 

As an update also I had been told it would be 10-15 days for painting, then they would post it out...

A week later its in the post.

 

Sticks!

I got a beautiful set of 50mm clinchers from Yishun last September. Run beautifully and cheap cheap cheap. Now if only I could find the snap on power legs to power them!

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I got a beautiful set of 50mm clinchers from Yishun last September. Run beautifully and cheap cheap cheap. Now if only I could find the snap on power legs to power them!

 

How much we talking cheap cheap cheap?!

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How much we talking cheap cheap cheap?!

 

Checking out the prices..if these things are where the European Brand bikes get their frames and bits from....ouch are we being ripped off.

Still..pretty impressed with the speccies on the Azzuri Forza from cycleexpress. Checked out reviews and everyone seemed damned happy and that was at the high normal price rather than the intro price for the Di2.

Told my mate about it who is umming and aahing about a roadie/TT bike. Seems too good to be true.

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While we are on this line, anyone know where to get some cheap carbon track wheels???

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E_baygoods.

I have purchased one item off them. I emailed them about a frame and they replied very quickly.

 

Wheels - At the moment Alibaba searching is giving me approx 450-550 for the wheelset landed to Aust.

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While we are on this line, anyone know where to get some cheap carbon track wheels???

 

ask at the club. there'll more than likely be someone trying to offload something at crazy crazy prices, I know that's what it's like down here.

 

otherwise the aforementioned site has some pretty cheap stuff. but aren't you still rockin F grade?

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otherwise the aforementioned site has some pretty cheap stuff. but aren't you still rockin F grade?

 

:lol::lol:

 

Thanks for the positive reinforcement, but not for me for a friend.

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:lol::lol:

 

Thanks for the positive reinforcement, but not for me for a friend.

 

you're welcome, can't have your self esteem getting too low :D

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How much we talking cheap cheap cheap?!

Paid $450 for my babies....Delivered within the week.

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Whats stronger the 12k or 3k in carbon? I like the 12k finish thats all.

 

S

 

As far as I know there is not much in it. The frames are made and then the finish is applied be it 3k, 12k etc.

 

If I am wrong someone please correct me but this does come up fairly frequently so I am fairly sure I am correct.

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As far as I know there is not much in it. The frames are made and then the finish is applied be it 3k, 12k etc.

 

If I am wrong someone please correct me but this does come up fairly frequently so I am fairly sure I am correct.

 

I checked this out not long ago. Basically it refers to the width of the fibre, ie 12K is the wider fibre, I think 12mm wide and 3K is the narrower fibre, 3mm. You can see this when you look at a bike which is not painted when you see the fibres.

 

Neither is stronger than the other, however the 12K is obviously more difficult to work around tight corners and small areas than the 3K because it is wider.

 

If you do some research online there are plenty of people who have asked this question and there is plenty of reading material on it.

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50mm clinchers from Yishun

 

I have mine on order from a different seller paying $477

 

Yishun were wanting 599 plus 65 postage. You obviously spoke to someone nicer than me!

 

Well done...

 

(At the end of the day we probably both have the same wheels anyway!)

 

I will post pics when mine arrive!

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I checked this out not long ago. Basically it refers to the width of the fibre, ie 12K is the wider fibre, I think 12mm wide and 3K is the narrower fibre, 3mm. You can see this when you look at a bike which is not painted when you see the fibres.

 

Neither is stronger than the other, however the 12K is obviously more difficult to work around tight corners and small areas than the 3K because it is wider.

 

If you do some research online there are plenty of people who have asked this question and there is plenty of reading material on it.

 

Both replies are not quite correct.

 

12K has approx. 12 000 carbon filaments, 3K has 3 000. They began to use a flat 12K tow to make the fabric in the factories in asia when the availability of some commercial fabrics dried up 5 or so years ago. There are some very small differences between 1K, 3K, 6K, 12K etc due to the level of carbonisation when the tow is made, however this is pretty much inconsequential in this application.

 

The so called finishing layer is the first ply to go into the mold then the remainder of the plies (which are usually unidirectional for a number of reasons) are then laid up as required.

 

Beware there is lots of mis-information out there about all this.

 

I have a fibre property table link on my site which gives some specs.

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Both replies are not quite correct.

 

12K has approx. 12 000 carbon filaments, 3K has 3 000. They began to use a flat 12K tow to make the fabric in the factories in asia when the availability of some commercial fabrics dried up 5 or so years ago. There are some very small differences between 1K, 3K, 6K, 12K etc due to the level of carbonisation when the tow is made, however this is pretty much inconsequential in this application.

 

The so called finishing layer is the first ply to go into the mold then the remainder of the plies (which are usually unidirectional for a number of reasons) are then laid up as required.

 

Beware there is lots of mis-information out there about all this.

 

I have a fibre property table link on my site which gives some specs.

I have heard something very similar from someone else in the know. But in the end, there is virtually no strength difference between to two weaves when used primarily as a cosmetic layer?

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This was posted as a questionable link on the roadbikereview website.

 

I think it looks a little sus. I have emailed the seller and asked if it is legit or not. Can anyone in the know confirm if this is a legitimate Pinarello Prince or is it a chinese knock off?

 

Ebay Link -

Item ID incase link fails - 150625273116

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This was posted as a questionable link on the roadbikereview website.

 

I think it looks a little sus. I have emailed the seller and asked if it is legit or not. Can anyone in the know confirm if this is a legitimate Pinarello Prince or is it a chinese knock off?

 

Ebay Link -

Item ID incase link fails - 150625273116

Fake. If you look at his feedback, he is very quick to mention brands when selling things. With the frame he is going out of his way not to mention the brand.

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So who is Yishun everyone speaks of. Where is there site and do they do full bikes which can be used as a spare. You can never have too many bikes. :lol:

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A copy of my email and a copy below of my reply.

 

G'day

 

Is this a legitimate Pinarello prince frame or is it a painted chinese carbon frame?

It looks exactly the same as many of the copy versions coming from China.

 

If so I do not believe you have made this obvious in your posting.

 

Thank you

 

Reply:

"Hi, It is as Listed. If you do a bit of homework you will find all the big name Frames are made in China, cheers."

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