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fishboy

Getting aero and pacing for TristanP

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You are right Otter... When doing the testing we would complete the tests on days where the conditions are as still as possible. It is a restriction of the model but is a restriction that when worked around by selecting optimal times for testing is still a heap cheaper than going to a wind tunnel.

 

It would be pretty pointless to take data that you collected on Beach Rd coming back from Mordi with a 50km Southerly and expect an accurate result... You would however be very bloody aero if you did use such data ;-)

 

I've found that even when windy, if the wind is pretty constant direction and speed, and you do the test on a round circuit eg velodrome, your CdA measured estimate is still actually very close. It is usually slightly LOWER than your calm CdA measurement as (I think) you get more lift from disks and aero wheels in varying yaw than at 0 yaw.

 

With aerostick, you should be able to get the second by second windspeed at the front of the bike which should remove the limitation of testing on non-windy days, and allow you to get more accurate CdA in windy conditions. It should also mean you can test bits of gear at certain yaw if you can ride constant enough speed for long enough you should be able to bin all the data into yaw "buckets" and work out what works better.

 

Yes, Alex, if you make it down here with an aero stick, love to see it in action. Time for another beer or so too I reckon.

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You are right Otter... When doing the testing we would complete the tests on days where the conditions are as still as possible. It is a restriction of the model but is a restriction that when worked around by selecting optimal times for testing is still a heap cheaper than going to a wind tunnel.

A restriction that will be removed with use of Aerostick.

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Are there any before and after shots that you are both willing to share?

 

 

That is really up to TristanP.

 

come on Tristan - lets see the before and after shots please.

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As far as the difference between race 2 and 6, my position between these races didnt change a whole heap, my available power went up considerably. There was about 70 watts difference in the average power for the 2 rides.

 

Since racing Roth last year in July, my FTP has increased by about 70 watts as well, so a lot of the increase is training related.

I appreciate that this thread is largely focussing on aero improvements.........................

 

but what on earth did you do to get a 70W improvment in FTP?????????????

 

Extremely impresssive - but am curious to know how you did it?

 

TGL

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I appreciate that this thread is largely focussing on aero improvements.........................

 

but what on earth did you do to get a 70W improvment in FTP?????????????

 

Extremely impresssive - but am curious to know how you did it?

 

TGL

 

;-) We spent a long time this season trying to smash each other... Lots of hard intervals at distances varying from 1km to 20km, hill work and going long. My sustainable power increased 30% between Sept and Dec, peaked in Jan, and declined lightly through the rest of the season after that. Use it or lose it basically. Tristan however has continued to push himself and is really starting to see the results of all those hard yards. You know when you've smashed out 13 or 14 5km intervals on the velodrome that you are starting to see improvement ...

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;-) We spent a long time this season trying to smash each other... Lots of hard intervals at distances varying from 1km to 20km, hill work and going long. My sustainable power increased 30% between Sept and Dec, peaked in Jan, and declined lightly through the rest of the season after that. Use it or lose it basically. Tristan however has continued to push himself and is really starting to see the results of all those hard yards. You know when you've smashed out 13 or 14 5km intervals on the velodrome that you are starting to see improvement ...

Mate - well done. That is a great effort. I've never even contemplated doing something like that!

 

TGL

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come on Tristan - lets see the before and after shots please.

I will try and post something tomorrow... I dont have any online at the moment other than Facebook and I dont think I can get a URL like from there

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Mate - well done. That is a great effort. I've never even contemplated doing something like that!

 

TGL

The best way to increase your threshold is to work at your threshold for longer and longer periods of time. Its a very challenging way to train and takes training to even be able to train that way, but its a direct product of getting a good coach that knows what they are doing.

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Fishboy - this is a great tool. Thanks for posting.

 

Just calculated my CdA at ~0.285.

 

As a matter of interest how slippery did you get Tristian. I did not see it in the thread. More specifically what is a good CdA and what needs some work.

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Fishboy - this is a great tool. Thanks for posting.

 

Just calculated my CdA at ~0.285.

 

As a matter of interest how slippery did you get Tristian. I did not see it in the thread. More specifically what is a good CdA and what needs some work.

Hey cmg...

 

Thats about where I started before we started working on things.

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Hey cmg...

 

Thats about where I started before we started working on things.

 

 

We may need to talk...

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CdA's are a closely guarded sekrit...

 

0.275-0.285 typical triathlete

0.255-0.275 getting better

0.235-0.255 getting good, but you'll need a lot of tweaking to get here if you have shoulders, or are big

0.215-0.235 super good, but unlikely you'll get in this range without a skinsuit and pretzel like abilities, probably impractical for ironman or halfs.

< 0.215 slippery like a fish

< 0.200 aero god/goddess

0.195 Dave Zabriskie, winning world TT champ

0.185 Levi Leipheimer, lowest recorded CdA of TT cyclist at LSWT in San Diego.

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< 0.200 aero god/goddess

0.195 Dave Zabriskie, winning world TT champ

0.185 Levi Leipheimer, lowest recorded CdA of TT cyclist at LSWT in San Diego.

I have had one athlete lower and know another we've measured as lower as well.

Both have masters world titles/records.

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Parts of this thread is trigold. Especially the calculator thing. Can we get that at least posted over there, so we can find it when we need it?

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My IMWA CdA was 0.31. Looks like im ratsh!t,

Hey Ratdog

 

Blokes like you and me are always going to measure a bit higher on the CdA (due to our macho muscle man type physiques and our huge Arnie type shoulder width :lol: ).

 

Ok - even if we are not complete macho men, in fairness we are a bit bigger than your skinny whippet types on the bike so our CdAs will be a bit higher!

 

But 0.31 still seems a little high - you weren't wearing your pale blue beer mile safari suit on the bike were you?

 

Seriously, my recollection is that you sat on 220W for a 5hr bike split at Busso. Does this lead to a CdA calculation of 0.31 (and the last lap of Busso was pretty windy as well)?

 

TGL

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Its all those dodgy things you stick on your bike :lol:

Well, at the time I didn't think that Rattie having an entire Physics lab taped to his aero bars (so he could do some experiments during the race if he got the urge) would be a big problem?

 

Maybe it slowed him down more than he expected :lol:

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come on Tristan - lets see the before and after shots please.

Before...

 

IM%20Port%20Bike%202010%20crop.jpeg

 

After...

 

20x30-FYBA1114%20desk.jpeg

 

The after shot is close to where I am at the moment, but the second bottle at the front of the bars is not there any more and has been replaced with something else. I dont have a photo of this, but will post something after Port from the race photos there.

 

The wheels in the after shot are not accurate either (no discs allowed at Falls Creek). I run a HED Jet Disc, and a HED Stinger 9 front wheel. Aerobars are from our aero friends at HED as well, Corsairs... The best bars you can get bar none (get it, bar none...)

 

Anyway, there you are, 2.5km free (well expensive really) per hour.

 

Edit: One other thing, if I want to be as slippery as possible I will not be wearing that helmet, although the Rudy is very fast, the KASK is faster... The KASK is this...

 

Link

Edited by TristanP

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Before...

 

IM%20Port%20Bike%202010%20crop.jpeg

 

After...

 

20x30-FYBA1114%20desk.jpeg

 

Anyway, there you are, 2.5km free (well expensive really) per hour.

 

 

Link

Well glad that you cleared that up.

 

Looks like it is an open and shut case of the compression socks in the "before" shot slowing you down that 2.5kph........... :lol:

Edited by The Glycogen Lilo

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Hey Tristan, well done on the new aero numbers. Just a few questions. Is that an adamo saddle you are now using? Also if you were using a normal saddle how far forward of bottom bracket would the tip be. What power numbers did you get from Falls and what time did you ride there.

 

Cheers TiPhoon

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Thanks for sharing the photos Tristan!

 

Some quick Q's;

Elbows much closer together. How does this effect your breathing?

 

Elbows much lower due to forearm angle, side effect is head is much lower. How does this effect your visibility?

 

Seat angle must be close to 90% in the current shot, does this load up your quads or do your glutes still work ok at this angle?

 

Thanks again!

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Hey Tristan, well done on the new aero numbers. Just a few questions. Is that an adamo saddle you are now using? Also if you were using a normal saddle how far forward of bottom bracket would the tip be. What power numbers did you get from Falls and what time did you ride there.

 

Cheers TiPhoon

Not sharing power data at the moment, but will be happy to do so after Port. Falls is a little bit hard to use as a measure due to the hills as well as the road conditions. Also everyone would have been lower on the power figure due to altitude, but also marginally lower on drag for the same reason.

 

I rode a 2:19 there though... Also would have been faster with race wheels, but this would be marginal (although, those Mavics are about the slowest thing you could put on a bike)

 

I ride steep, like really steep... It is an Adamo, and I dont know what the seat angle figure would be with a normal saddle, but it would be well over 80 degrees

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