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Protein - How much do you eat?

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I called into a health food store yesterday and had a very interesting and informative talk with the lady working there. She did mention what she was, some naturopath / nutritionist thingy, whatever, she did seem to really know her stuff.

 

Anyway after talking to her about how much I train (generally 2 sessions per day, for a HIM and IM this season) and my diet, she says that I am not taking enough protein in. I eat a pretty healthy diet of the usual stuff, protein shake after hard sessions, muslea for breaky, fruit, nuts, sultanans during the day, wrap for lunch and meat & three veg for dinner. She told me I need 3 servings about the size of your palm of protein per day PLUS 2 small servings via a protein shake to get another 20 -30grams each shake to prevent me burning muscle and aid recovery.

How do you all cover off your nutritional needs while training and recovery for how much protein do you take? Do you supplement meals during the day with shakes? One interesting point she told me was that they are much better when mixed with water or soy milk, not cows milk as this takes away some of the benefits (once again she lost me there with her technical talk), but I dont mind soy milk so I will be trying that now.

 

I note also that she also spoke very highly of Endura Opti, she said that Endura are the best on the market, even though they didnt sell the Opti, so no really bias there.

Edited by nin

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One interesting point she told me was that they are much better when mixed with water or soy milk, not cows milk as this takes away some of the benefits (once again she lost me there with her technical talk), but I dont mind soy milk so I will be trying that now.

 

I will take a leap here and say this bit is silly. Protein shakes usually include WPC, WPI and\or Casein protein. All of these proteins are derived from milk. There are others but you tend to buy them specifically because they are 'others' and you are tyring to specifically avoid dairy.

 

That being said - if you were talking about weight loss or something - she might have made this comment because using milk will include the calorie count. You get protein from the powder plus protein, carbs and fats from the milk.

 

In terms of how much protein you should eat - body builders often start at a 40%/40%/20% split of protein, carbs and fats. They can often go up to 60% proteins. This is all way more than we need.

 

When I stopped counting my macro nutrients - I was doing a 50% (carbs)\30% (protein)\10% fats split which is probably a bit low on the fats but it worked well enough. This was achieved by milk (with oats) at brekky, including chicken\fish\steak at lunch and dinner plus the occasional protein shake here and there. Pretty much exactly as you said you are doing now.

 

After all of that - the biggest test is - how is your body running right now? Do you recover well from big sessions? Are you losing weight unintentionally (particularly muscle mass)?

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Some protein with EVERY meal.

Cottage or goats cheese or poached egg on toast for brekkie at home, soaked muesli with soy milk and fruit after AM swim squads (Opti before squad and if I've also done a run, protein shake between finishing, showering and breakfast).

At least one drink of soy milk during the day.

Salad with goat/fetta cheese, chickpeas, tofu and/or tinned tuna for lunch.

Fairly standard meat and many veg at night.

Often some yoghurt somewhere in there.

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I use Ascend Sport - with approximately 50g of WPI a day; and then additional 50g if it's a particularly hard training session.

 

The recommendation (G of protein per KG of body mass) off their website is as follows:

 

Sedentary: Male 0.84, Female 0.75

Adolescents: 1.0

Team Sports: 1.4 - 1.7

Endurance: 1.1. - 1.6

Strength: 1.3 - 2.0

 

So for a 80kg Endurance/Strength athlete (track pursuiting, crit racing) I stick closer to the 1.6g/kg on hard days.

 

http://www.ascendsport.com.au/custom.aspx?id=22

Edited by parawolf

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One interesting point she told me was that they are much better when mixed with water or soy milk, not cows milk as this takes away some of the benefits (once again she lost me there with her technical talk), but I dont mind soy milk so I will be trying that now.

Run as far as you can.

Whenever you hear this "brotelligence", you know its time to run.

 

I bet she was saying that using cows milk slow the rate of digestion of the protein as the milk "gels" in the stomach (which it does).

Thing is, any fast acting protein is already absorped and its only the fractions that take longer to digest anyway that are slowed (which is actually a good thing and the reason why choclate milk is the best thing PWO anyway)

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Run as far as you can.

Whenever you hear this "brotelligence", you know its time to run.

 

I bet she was saying that using cows milk slow the rate of digestion of the protein as the milk "gels" in the stomach (which it does).

Thing is, any fast acting protein is already absorped and its only the fractions that take longer to digest anyway that are slowed (which is actually a good thing and the reason why choclate milk is the best thing PWO anyway)

 

 

The body can only absorb 40g of protein at a time. So the rest goes down the dunny.

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The body can only absorb 40g of protein at a time. So the rest goes down the dunny.

 

It's more true to say there is a certain rate at which protein can be absorbed into the body and it varies according to the different sources.

 

Whey protein is one of the fastest and the absorption rate is dependant on what else you consume at the same time.

 

Agreed 40g is unlikely to all be absorbed though.

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Go to the doctor and get a blood test.

 

I got one before an Ultra a few months back, it measured protein some how and the Doc showed me my numbers and the "normal" range next to it, said I should increase my intake. He wasn't trying to sell me anything either.

 

Everybody's body is different, including digestive systems and ability to absorb vitamins and minerals. Get a blood test and base your intake on science not marketing.

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I called into a health food store yesterday

There's your problem! :lol:

 

If you're worried go see a sports dietitian.

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Guest Animal

I would hazard a guess that anyone eating enough calories will have ample amounts of protein....

 

Hardly anyone suffers from undernourishment in this country.

 

Over-nourishint is the issue for 99.9999% of people.

 

Has anyone EVER heard of someone having a protein deficiency. An actual diagnosed deficiency not some random "I started to eat more protein and felt good"

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I would hazard a guess that anyone eating enough calories will have ample amounts of protein....

 

Hardly anyone suffers from undernourishment in this country.

 

Over-nourishint is the issue for 99.9999% of people.

 

Has anyone EVER heard of someone having a protein deficiency. An actual diagnosed deficiency not some random "I started to eat more protein and felt good"

Agree with Animal. Eat enough normal stuff and you will get all the protein you need.

 

In fact, even if you eat the crap that I eat you will get more than enough protein - you just tend to get a bit too much of other stuff as well. :lol:

 

TGL

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There's your problem! :lol:

 

If you're worried go see a sports dietitian.

 

 

Sports dieticians are a bit full on - every one seems to be seeing one and as an AG athlete would think it is a bit of overkill

 

It is pretty common sense what to eat but some people have more of an enterouge than the pro's and they all seem to tell a slightly different story....

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as an AG athlete would think it is a bit of overkill

 

I did the "common sense" thing and lost SFA.

I did the dietitian thing and lost 10 kgs.

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I did the "common sense" thing and lost SFA.

I did the dietitian thing and lost 10 kgs.

 

Bunny if you had seen the results that Tyno (and others I know have achieved) visiting the same nutritionist you may change your tune.

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Blah blah blah.................

 

Results speak a thousand words. I increased my protein intake via Opti and natural foods (white and red meat) and the results speak for themselves.

 

Why listen to someone on a forum knock it. Try it for yourself.

 

Not specifically aimed at Clown boy. Absortion blah blah blah, Everyone is different. If you want to recover from a hard session increase your protein. Try eating "real food" but if time is a constraint and you want the best bang for your buck hit the protein shake.

 

AGAIN. RESULTS SPEAK A THOUSAND WORDS

 

 

 

 

It's more true to say there is a certain rate at which protein can be absorbed into the body and it varies according to the different sources.

 

Whey protein is one of the fastest and the absorption rate is dependant on what else you consume at the same time.

 

Agreed 40g is unlikely to all be absorbed though.

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When I consume too much protein the next day I feel sluggish because I not consumed enough carbohydrate. Carbohydrate should be the focus when training and protein when recovering. If you train during the day consume mainly carbohyrate with some protein and then recovery in your evening meal with protein from animal sources mainly if not vegtarian.

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Results speak a thousand words.....................the results speak for themselves.

 

AGAIN. RESULTS SPEAK A THOUSAND WORDS

I have been speaking to my results to see what they are saying back to me.

 

They have confirmed that they are indeed speaking for themselves and they are busy painting a picture which speaks a thousand words - possibly more.

 

I just don't like what they are telling me :lol:

 

TGL

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Not specifically aimed at Clown boy. Absortion blah blah blah, Everyone is different. If you want to recover from a hard session increase your protein. Try eating "real food" but if time is a constraint and you want the best bang for your buck hit the protein shake.

 

I was correcting the other guy and talking about absorption rates.

 

If you read my first post on this topic - the first reply at all - I was pro protein. I eat plenty of it, advocate it and without going overboard - I advocate shakes and supplements like your Opti.

 

I also said theb est way to tell if you are getting enough is to assess how you recover from training, etc.

 

Absorption rates and how much you have in a single sitting in science but I am very pro protein as part of your balanced whole food diet.

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AGAIN. RESULTS SPEAK A THOUSAND WORDS

 

And my results include 43kg of weight loss and recovering from both my first marathon and my first 2 half Ironman events sufficient to start run training 3 days later - not an injury yet in 2 years of training apart from a bit of shoulder pain during peak swimming periods.

 

Plus other metrics.

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Guest Animal
AGAIN. RESULTS SPEAK A THOUSAND WORDS

 

especially those results from valid and reliable research

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Show me the results that say it does not aid recovery???

 

Call it placebo if you like. I have done the 4 weeks with and 4 weeks without and noticed a marked improvement in recovery and ability to back up day in day out.

 

I suppose it does come down to personal preference. You prefer your way and i prefer mine. I believe in a balanced diet but anything to help me get through the 20+hr weeks of training is a bonus :lol:

 

especially those results from valid and reliable research

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Guest Animal
Show me the results that say it does not aid recovery???

 

Oh, Protein works - and we're so lucky it's abundant in so many foods.....and there's no benefit of more than what we can easily obtain if eating enough calories on a variety of diets.

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In the world of protein shakes im an Ascend man. Ascend Recovery tastes bloody great,id eat it if it wasnt a protein shake...seriously!

 

In the world of protein in foods,i normally try to take in about 30 gms post workout,either gym or bike or long run.

 

I heard it said once and still love and go by "eat fast protein" or in other words,get your protein from meats that were fast when they were alive. They are always alot leaner meat and they often have the greater good for you.

 

My main source of protein is tuna and other fish. I love it and noticed when i introduced it into my diet more that i would recover much quicker and of course tehre are the added benefits of getting you daily omega 3 hit amongst other things.

 

So to summise.....

 

Ascend recovery and fish!

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At the LSD talk with CEM the diet guy said you can't process more than 20 of protein. Well I think that's what he said. Will look up his presentation.

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Well thanks for the input guys.

 

I have been drinking a few different types of shakes lately trying to find one I like, havent settled on one yet. I definately agree that you recover better if you have it after exercise. I just wasnt sure whether I need to supplement my intake with a couple of extra dosesat morning & afternoon tea time.

 

Sounds like I need to do a bit of trial and error and research for what suits me best.

 

Obviously by some of the threads the answer is a bit like running shoes, there's no real best type of best fit solution, we are all individual and have different preferences or solutions.

 

Maybe I should post a 'what's the best type of shoe' to really start the arguements, although thats probably been done.

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i take in a fair bit of protein when im training, on a day when i train am and pm ill have a mushi P30 shake on milk after both sessions plus around a 200g piece of meat split between dinner and lunch plus whatever else i consume during the day without thinking about ie:milk in ceral and coffee,

 

all in all i rekkon id be around 100-130grams of protein a day, know idea weather thats right or wrong but its got me going alright

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The body can only absorb 40g of protein at a time. So the rest goes down the dunny.

So you are telling me that a 45kg female gymnast and a 120kg male rugby prop absorb the same amount of protein?

 

Almost ALL the protein eaten is absorbed by the body (when was the last time you shit out a steak?)

BUT not all of it is used for repair and recovery.

The protein consumed will be broken down into amino acids and whatever the body requires for repair/growth will be used as required while the rest will simply be used as an energy source.

 

40g may well be the maximum amount SOME people require for recovery/repair/growth, but it is not set in stone and everyone is different.

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Guest Animal

a few serious issues with consuming excess amounts of protein.

 

Kidneys cop a hammering and calcium leeched from bones to deal with the acidic environment that excess protein creates.

 

Bey hey, triathletes wouldn't need strong bones, half their time is spent in the water or on the bike. far more important to ensure you have the latest protein shake than to avoid fracturing your hips when your 50.

 

Protein is a good thing. Wonderful and essential. But more is not better. And there is a real danger in having too much if taking it in isolated/concentrated form.

 

It's hard to have too much if eating it in whole foods (unless you're eating a lot of meat) and it's very easy to get enough if eating in whole foods.

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Kidneys cop a hammering and calcium leeched from bones to deal with the acidic environment that excess protein creates.

 

Not strictly accurate it seems. High protein diets cause hypercalciuria, or increased levels of calcium in urine. It was assumed that this was being leached from bones, but it seems that this is not the case, and it's just that high-protein intake reduces your body's ability to absorb calcium, so you're pissing out more of the calcium you've just consumed, NOT stripping stuff from your bones.

 

Now over the long term, if you were always on a high-protein diet, you could argue that the reduced absorption might become an issue, but this can easily be overcome by ensuring that if you go high-protein you also bump up your calcium intake.

 

Furthermore, vegetable protein doesn't show the same hypercalciuria as animal protein.

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Guest Animal

Donncha - have you read the china study? I haven't, but doesn't it hammer protein from animal sources too?

 

note, I don't talk strictly accurately - e.g. "hammering" has yet to be widely acknowledged in the medical field as a way of describing a consequence. :lol:

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All I know is that I eat just regular food (no protein or other supplements) and estimate I eat 90-100g of protein a day. No idea if that's right or not. But I think my body tells me if I'm eating too much rubbish, or if I'm short of carbs etc etc

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Donncha - have you read the china study? I haven't, but doesn't it hammer protein from animal sources too?

 

Nope, what's the 'China study?'

 

Back when I was looking into a high-protein diet to drop weight, I jumped on Google/PubMed as the bone thing was something I'd heard about and wanted to see what the research said. Here's a couple:

 

Acid diet (high-meat protein) effects on calcium metabolism and bone health (2010) concludes that a high-protein diet with adequate calcium is good for bone health.

 

 

Dietary protein, calcium metabolism, and skeletal homeostasis revisited (2003) which concludes that LOW-protein diets may be detrimental to bone health, not high-protein.

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In most three day food diaries I look over - the new athlete is not having enough protein in their diets and even if they are, it's not spread across the day as it should be.

 

As a result of increasing protein intake, spreading it evenly across the day, the athlete loses body fat, increases muscle weight, maintains good health and goes faster in their races. This is very often on less training than they were on before :D

 

I still suggest an athlete should have 50-60% of their diet as vegetables :lol: less wheat, more veges.

 

Too much protein in the diet will often show up as bad body odour when training. In fact almost any excess in the diet will show up in body odour. :lol:

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Animal,

 

Im interested to know what "whole foods" YOU eat when doing 20+ hrs a week training for IM. How you fit in your "whole foods" around work commitments. I eat a pretty healthy diet aimed at keeping my energy levels up and recovery solid.

 

a few serious issues with consuming excess amounts of protein.

 

Kidneys cop a hammering and calcium leeched from bones to deal with the acidic environment that excess protein creates.

 

Bey hey, triathletes wouldn't need strong bones, half their time is spent in the water or on the bike. far more important to ensure you have the latest protein shake than to avoid fracturing your hips when your 50.

 

Protein is a good thing. Wonderful and essential. But more is not better. And there is a real danger in having too much if taking it in isolated/concentrated form.

 

It's hard to have too much if eating it in whole foods (unless you're eating a lot of meat) and it's very easy to get enough if eating in whole foods.

Edited by Scott Murray

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