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REBEL08

Split runs. Is there a time and a place for them

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Ok, whats your view on split runs, i.e. rather than doing 25k straight, is there value in doing 10k at lunch time, 15-20k after work.

 

are they a complete waste of time.

 

obviously you dont get the fatigue factor like you do in a long run 30k, but do they have a place in a training plan?

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I did my first ever split run on Tuesday as my coach is trying to get extra volume into my legs in readiness for a relatively fast-tracked first HIM. I have done very few double sessions in anything since I started training again after injury, whereas last season I used to do lots of swim/run and run/windtrainer days.

 

1hr:15 am, 20 min PM was the start point. I found it mentally and physically OK to head out for the second session after work (apart from the need to wash 2 sets of gear and the dark and rain). What was really interesting that, for what was a very short run indeed, the pace was slower than in the AM. But it was a first and I tend to start new ventures conservatively until the impacts are understood.

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I do heaps of split runs.

Can be any of the below:

 

Morning run to work afternoon run home.

Morning run to work lunch time run.

Morning run to work lunch time run afternoon run home.

Morning run to work evening Athletics Track session.

 

I find it eaiser to get more kms in and less taxing on the body.

The only thing to remember is you still need to have some long runs as well as split run days.

 

When I was doing Ironman training I still did heaps of split days both for bike and run mostly because my training is targettted around commuting.

So midweek bike would bo some thing like am 90km ride to work 25km ride home afternoon.

And runs Morning run to work afternoon run home.

Swim at lunch time.

 

Worked OK for me.

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Do double runs when you're aiming to increase overall volume, not to split your current volume into smalle chunks (unless you're not coping with your current volume).

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Morning run to work afternoon run home.

Morning run to work lunch time run.

Morning run to work lunch time run afternoon run home.

Morning run to work evening Athletics Track session.

 

I am sure you could fit some more running in there Brick... maybe an early mid morning run? :lol:

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I've been doing them as part of my last two ironman preps. Long run split into 30k am 10k pm.

 

Adds in the extra volume I wanted and giving me more recovery time.

 

Like anything the more you do the easier they get.

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Double Runs are great.

 

Try this one

 

AM - Do long run 90mins to 2hrs

 

PM - 30mins as

10mins Easy

then 30sec Hard/30secs Easy

60sec Hard/60sec Easy

90secs Hard/90secs easy

60sec Hard/60sec Easy

30sec Hard/30secs Easy

 

Cool Down to bring up 30mins

 

This teaches you get your legs turning over when tired/fatigued

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I've been doing them as part of my last two ironman preps. Long run split into 30k am 10k pm.

though you actually have a real long run in there.

someone else is going to take their 25km 'long' run and split it into 2x 12.5km and consider they have trained for running long.

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as time passes i am more than ever convinced that frequency is vastly more superior to duration

 

frequent runs done with good quality especially 2 or 3 in a day really work wonders for a lot of people

 

consistent execution of the long run is also important but not if it leaves you without frequency (either from lack of recovery or running out time)

 

there are plenty of very successful IM'ers who run "long" very sparingly

 

have a look at Gorrick, Koorey, AP etc. You'll see them hammering out short quality runs ahead of anything else

 

AP is a big believer in the short and frequent runs to build durability

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The other option for learning to turn your legs over when fatigued is to brick a tempo run or hard intervals after a solid swim squad. I did the former this morning and fatigue doesn't start to describe it.

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I think this is very relavent to the split run question.

 

Dr Jamie Harrison who was and still is a very handy runner just put up a small snipet of his training program when he was running his best, it is on CRing.

 

Here's a couple of weeks about 3 weeks before my 5k PB:

 

Sat Interclub 1500 1st 3.50.9 + 6k

Sun St Paul's Moss Vale 8k 1st 24.24, night 20k

Mon Morning 8k, night 4 x 100s + 4 x 8 x 200s (jog across between).

Tues Morning 6k, night 3k to track, 4 laps + 4 x 100s + 4 x 400s (55 - 57) + 2 laps + 4 x 100s + 6 k back.

Wed 11k

Thurs Morning 11k, night Alby Thomas 3k 1st 8.09.

Fri Morning 8k, night 8k

Sat Interclub 5k 1st 14.01

Sun Woodstock Runners 10k 1st 29.19 + 5k

Mon Morning 16k, night track 4 laps + 4 x 100s + 5 x 200s (jog across) + 4 laps fast 300/slow 100 + 5 x 200s (jog across) + 4 laps fast 300/slow 100 + 2 laps.

Tues Morning 5k, night 3k to track, 4 laps + 4 x 100s + 6 laps 200 hard/200 easy + 1 lap + 11k home.

Wed 6k

Thurs Canberra 5k 1st 13.51 + long warmdown.

Fri Morning 16k, night 8k

Sat Morning 8k, night 8k

Sun State 10k 1st 29.20, night 5k.

Mon Morning 18k, night track 4 laps + 4 x 100s + 6 x 800s (2.17 - 2.11) + 5 x 200s (jog across) + 2 laps.

Tues Morning 16k, night 3k to track then 4 laps + 4 x 100s + 8 laps + 12k home.

Wed Morning 11k, night track 4 laps + 4 x 100s, + 4 x 600s (200 jog between) (1.33 - 1.31) + 4 x 600s (200 jog) (1.34 - 1.29) + 2 laps + 4 laps 100 hard/100 easy + 6k to/from track.

Thurs Grass track 16k (104.17)

Fri Morning 11k, night 5k

Sat Interclub 3k 1st 8.04

Sun Morning 25k, night 16k.

 

etc, etc

Loads of split runs in that lot and he still manage to run really quickly.

Edited by Brick

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but note that was in the leadup to his 5km PB.

 

Others are splitting runs and hoping it's the best method for running long.

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but note that was in the leadup to his 5km PB.

 

Others are splitting runs and hoping it's the best method for running long.

 

...and it may be worth mentioning that despite a win at Melbourne, Jamie never ran a marathon anywhere near what his shorter distance times would suggest, in fact for a <28min/13:20 guy he never broke 2:20 despite several goes at it. Those short times would have suggested something like <2:10.

 

Ditto someone like Paul Arthur, 62min HM, 2:24 marathon.

 

These two guys had some things in common with their training.

Edited by Evil Cadence

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but note that was in the leadup to his 5km PB.

 

Others are splitting runs and hoping it's the best method for running long.

That is correct but the title of thread say's nothing about running long.

Replying to Split runs. Is there a time and a place for them

 

And because REBEL08 started talking about long runs I also said:

The only thing to remember is you still need to have some long runs as well as split run days.

So split runs do not take the place of long runs but are used as well as.

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Baby boomer and proud of it

 

I think any of us who describe ourselves as "Baby Boomers", need longer periods between runs

 

I guess I'm a Baby Boomer :lol: I always have 48hrs between runs :lol:

 

But on the other hand I might do 20km off a 4-5hr bike, done as 10 x 2km repeats at (my best possible race day pace) :D

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I think any of us who describe ourselves as "Baby Boomers", need longer periods between runs

 

I guess I'm a Baby Boomer :lol: I always have 48hrs between runs :lol:

 

But on the other hand I might do 20km off a 4-5hr bike, done as 10 x 2km repeats at (my best possible race day pace) :D

 

I'm interested in this technique AP...Intervals off the bike..do you take a break between each 2k rep? It sounds kinda like a race simulator, i.e. running from aid station to aid station.

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That is correct but the title of thread say's nothing about running long.

The first post in the thread talks about 25 and 30km runs, so I presume the title to be taken in the light of the opening post.

 

agree with your comments re 2 runs in a day being used in conjunction with the long run.

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I'm interested in this technique AP...Intervals off the bike..do you take a break between each 2k rep? It sounds kinda like a race simulator, i.e. running from aid station to aid station.

 

I run mine on a 10min time base, I get enough time to get a drink, or gel in between when I have to leave again. It keeps the whip on your back.

 

I have different athletes doing them on different times on the same 1km strip. Anything from 9min to 12min time bases. There's no point ripping out 4min kms if you're going to be hoping for five min pace on race day. It is an aerobic training session, with a strong mental component :lol:

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When working shift and finding it difficult to get the time/awakeness for a proper long run, I was doing 17kmx2 with 8 hours between them either running to and from work or riding to work, running home, runnng back the next shift (10 hour turn around so a little les than 8 hours between runs) then riding home again. Ran my best IM marathon by over half an hour. STill did one or two straight long runs when timing was right (3 hours+) but mostly 2x1:20 runs done at a little more solidly that easy pace (Daniels M pace)

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I run mine on a 10min time base, I get enough time to get a drink, or gel in between when I have to leave again. It keeps the whip on your back.

 

I have different athletes doing them on different times on the same 1km strip. Anything from 9min to 12min time bases. There's no point ripping out 4min kms if you're going to be hoping for five min pace on race day. It is an aerobic training session, with a strong mental component :lol:

I did some of these the other day. 20x1km after a hard bike and was surprised at how easy a 20 km run could feel. I started doing a few kms back to back because I was afraid the session would feel too easy. Probably a rookie mistake. :lol:

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yep, i split my long runs too 65-70% in the morning the other 30-35% that arvo

 

my run reps of the bike are a little longer though 3or4 reps of 5km with a 3-4min rest

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