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I personally think that anyone (average) can do a 1:15 swim at Ironman on limited training over 10-12 weeks swimming a few times a week.

 

But what does it take for said average swimmer to get down to 60mins?

 

Or just to take off 15 minutes.

 

Before slower swimmers reply this also applies for you. Getting from a 1:30 down to 1:15 etc...

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I personally think that anyone (average) can do a 1:15 swim at Ironman on limited training over 10-12 weeks swimming a few times a week.

 

But what does it take for said average swimmer to get down to 60mins?

 

Or just to take off 15 minutes.

 

Before slower swimmers reply this also applies for you. Getting from a 1:30 down to 1:15 etc...

 

Same principle going from 60 minutes to 45...

 

Train 4 to 5 times a week (3-5k) in the pool with 2 quality squad sessions for 6 to 8 months

 

Waiver: (Not an expert btw!)

Edited by Coach@triathlon

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Confidence. I consider myself a good swimmer, yet I talk to people who are faster than me who think they are crap. Think you're a good swimmer, and train like a good swimmer; not just aimlessly doing laps at the pool with no point to them. Often I see a squad at our local pool that has one of towns best triathletes in it. He did 20mins at mool this year I think. And I never see this squad just doing aimless laps. Drills drills drills drills. I reckon I'd be around your 1:15 to 1:20 mark for an IM swim, and I'd love to be at the 60min mark. Will be one day. Join a squad - find someone who's better than you then aim to get better than them.

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I personally think that anyone (average) can do a 1:15 swim at Ironman on limited training over 10-12 weeks swimming a few times a week.

 

But what does it take for said average swimmer to get down to 60mins?

 

Or just to take off 15 minutes.

 

Before slower swimmers reply this also applies for you. Getting from a 1:30 down to 1:15 etc...

 

I went from 1:12 to 59mn.

All I did was 2/3 squads during the week + 1 open water swim/week

This for the 6months leading into busso last year

Edited by Will The Frenchman

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Same principle going from 60 minutes to 45...

 

Train 4 to 5 times a week (3-5k) in the pool with 2 quality squad sessions for 6 to 8 months

 

Waiver: (Not an expert btw!)

 

haha not an expert.

 

What do you consider a Quality session?

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haha not an expert.

 

What do you consider a Quality session?

 

Quality: meaning someone is watching your stroke, and you do a mix of sets covering a range of energy systems

 

Example:

 

Warm up - 200 Pyramid (1k)

 

Lactate Tolerance Set - 1x 50 h, 1 x 50 e, etc. up to 8x 50 hard with a 400 recovery. (2400). Goal of the set is a lactate build up with a set of 50s swum at 95-100% with minimal rest/recovery

 

800 with fins 100 kick/100 finger trail (800)

 

4200 total

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Intervals, intervals, intervals!

 

50's, 100's, 200's - 30secs rest in-between efforts. Keep going until your lungs feel like they are about to explode. :lol:

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The PIS boys should be on soon with the sub-60 formula that worked for them.

Like sands in the hourglass, these are the days of our lives....................

Swim 3 or 4 times a week, with 20 of your peers, with no aimless laps. Listen when people who are good swimmers give you advice and watch how they do it. I got a lot out of watching cominotto, 3x chapman etc swim the sessions.

I swam my first lap at the tender age of 32, in Nov 08, and swam 56min at IM last month.

Disclaimer: I am hard core PIS member and still don't know what kick and catch up is. :lol:

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Find a repeat time that challanges you, also helps to teach you not to fly the first bit and then die in arse. I agree that its good to have a coach watch your stroke at least once a week. Learn to kick enough that you can balance yourself and be comfy minus the pullbouy. And practise what you race, get a few mates and do some open water sessions and practise sitting on feet and hips and being relaxed when someone is smacking you over the back of the head

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In other words I should join a squad to get from 1:07 to 55min :lol:

 

There is something about swim training that is differn't to run/cycle training. I don't know if it is the water or the fact that I have to use my arms, or if it is becasue I can't breathe whenever I like :-) I see swim squad for the youngsters at my pool and it scares me :-) They look so faassssst

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The PIS boys should be on soon with the sub-60 formula that worked for them.

I am guessing you don't read firstoffthebike.com?

 

They had a PIS approved program to go 8:32

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I've never raced an IM. However I have raced swims up to 5k and swam the IM swim in the pool without a wetty in 54min.

My formula is to swim 10k per week, week in week out. Not 20k one week then burn out. Around 10k every week.

Swim 2k main sets of good quality, regular time trials and if you live in a state where open water swim race are available race as many of them as possible. Swim with swimmers that are better than you and dont feel you have to swim with 20 other people in a lane at 5.30 a.m to improve.

Learn to motivate your self and swim hard sets against the watch. The watch can be a great training partner if your are honest and disciplined.

Also dont lock your self into the same scene week in week out. Swim in different locations, use your imagination and keep it fun.

Leave the bloody wetsuit in the cupboard until race seasom comes round.

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2008 did squad 1.08

 

2009 did squad 1.04

 

2010 no squad 59. (about 6km a week).

 

I feel that squad was not helping me the rest of the week with cycling and running. I felt fresher overall by swimming all in the afternoons and riding running mornings instead of really early squad. Got more sleep too.

 

2010 :lol: no squad for Busso.. put me down for a 57. :lol:

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I am too lazy to remember any new sets so I do the same sets week in week out.

 

3 swims/ week solo. The local swim coach is watching but only so he can give me a hard time about being a lazy triathlete.

 

1st swim - easy swimming, all drills and recovery as too tired from weekend training.

 

2nd swim - 10 x 200m main set, bit of a warm up and a few drills.

 

3rd swim - 5x 600m main set. This one I try to do well as it most replicates the type of swimming I'll be doing when racing.

 

Like all my training I try to keep it simple. Usually gets me out in about 55min. :lol:

 

I find I feel like I am swimming crap most of the time, getting nowhere near the times I know I can do. It is only in the last 4 weeks when I start to taper that my times markedly fall in the pool. It doesn't concern me any more and I don't get hung up on the times. Just effort and technique.

 

And I would be really interested in seeing what the PIS guys are doing in the pool.

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Same principle going from 60 minutes to 45...

 

Train 4 to 5 times a week (3-5k) in the pool with 2 quality squad sessions for 6 to 8 months

 

Waiver: (Not an expert btw!)

 

 

Coach I need some of your expertise: The local pool here is closing for 3 months - yes there are other pools in the area - the quickest to get too would be about 45min each way. However there are a lot of good open water swimming beaches here and the water does not get tooo cold. My question is what to do with 3 months of open water type swimming before geting back into a swim squad. My swim sucks - for Ironman I usually swim around 1.10ish and have blown out to 1.20. I am 55.

 

My thinking is to make these 3 months a type of strength building period? 3 swims a week? 1 swim basically just swim for an hour concentrating on technique. 1 swim with pool buoy and paddles. And 1 swim doing a sort of fartleg swimming thing.

 

Think this would work?

 

THANKS

TIM

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Coach I need some of your expertise: The local pool here is closing for 3 months - yes there are other pools in the area - the quickest to get too would be about 45min each way. However there are a lot of good open water swimming beaches here and the water does not get tooo cold. My question is what to do with 3 months of open water type swimming before geting back into a swim squad. My swim sucks - for Ironman I usually swim around 1.10ish and have blown out to 1.20. I am 55.

 

My thinking is to make these 3 months a type of strength building period? 3 swims a week? 1 swim basically just swim for an hour concentrating on technique. 1 swim with pool buoy and paddles. And 1 swim doing a sort of fartleg swimming thing.

 

Think this would work?

 

THANKS

TIM

 

Mate I got your PM and am going to Port Stephens. We can have a chat if we meet.

 

I wouldn't periodise your swimming. Mix everything up in each session. Too much pull/paddles will affect your feel for the water etc.

 

An example for 3 sessions might be...1 session with long intervals@80%....1 session with shorter intervals (100s 200s)@80-90%....1 session with real short intervals@95% (25s and 50s)

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If the coach leaves and the new one doesn't have a clue with adults, find a new squad.

 

Ho hum, this is my task in the next few months and anywhere new is going to mean lots more travel to/from sqad. Or working on my own which is risky as my target is to pull 5sec/50m off my previous comfort zone pace.

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The PIS boys should be on soon with the sub-60 formula that worked for them.

 

You make that sound like it is a bad thing!

I am interested in hearing lots of different opinions..actually Donncha, what's yours?

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No expert but consumer's view. Port Mac 2010 52.50 or something.

 

Coach@'s advice followed to letter. At least 3 swims a week all year. 3-4 squads a week from Christmas. All 4kms+ building to I think 6km longest session a month out. 2 coaches with slightly different approaches. Mick's approach as above. Low priority to medley stuff, almost all fly with fins. His wife's approach more masters swim vs triathlon bias, ie kick no fins, no fins for any medley stuff, bit more drill. Complimented each other.

 

Giz I would be rooted for a day after each squad session but would parlay a one hour interval run to squad each Saturday so essentially did a 2.5hr run/swim brick and Wednesday would swim 5.30-7, brekky and kids to school straight into 2-2.40 run. Did very few long bike/run bricks but got the feeling of running fatigued every week.

 

Once a week in february did an open water surf squad session with lots of starts, ins and outs, sprints up the beach. Jabbs would be happy with the mongrel-o-meter readings from these sessions and race craft/belting/swim in any conditions benefits. I love it.

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Intersting comments. I don't like swimming......have limited it because I don't really enjoy the blackline, my squad mates take the piss out of me because of it. This year my goal is to make swimming enjoyable and do more of it. I'm not quick, though not slow, will be interested to see how I fair if I commit to 3-4 sessions as per the above posts.

 

Previously I have always questioned the amount of time I would gain by more swim training verse more running, though given the speed of the quick guys I now know I need to be out of the water with them to have any chance of keeping in touch before the run starts.

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I personally think that anyone (average) can do a 1:15 swim at Ironman on limited training over 10-12 weeks swimming a few times a week.

 

But what does it take for said average swimmer to get down to 60mins?

 

Or just to take off 15 minutes.

 

Before slower swimmers reply this also applies for you. Getting from a 1:30 down to 1:15 etc...

 

Started swimming in 1996 at 26years of age. Could of just do 50m.

 

Since then my fastest IM swim has been 54min and my slowest has been 59min.

 

My tips

Focus on technique. I know very fit guys that are very slow swimmers. If you get someone who knows how to break down a stroke and identify your flaws then you'll have something to focus and improve. That will save you a bucket load of time, without trying to get fitter.

 

1-2 swims PW is a waste of time. Your better off devoting that time to getting fitter on the bike and run

 

Minimum training PW = 3 x 1hr swim, but that will give you the bare minimum in terms of improvements

 

Get off time bases and focus on efforts and recoveries. Less focus on cardio (blowing your lungs) and greater focus on strength (paddles, band only, fly, etc) will take what you can do and make it better. Focsusing on cardio will only assist you in breaking down your stroke to quickly.

 

Make the strength work......work. Hard and fast swimming, short intervals (100-200) and long recoveries. Smash the muscles, not the lungs (save that for the last 6 weeks). Take all the rest you need so long as you can keep smashing yourself and HOLD pace. When the pace goes, the technique goes and STOP the set. No need to bring in more bad habits.

 

Ditch the pull buoy. Learn to balance in the water. Triathletes and pull buoys don't mix. They'll make your balance suck and as a result you won't be much faster in a wettie when it counts.

 

 

fluro

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There is a school of thought that would say you would be better off putting the extra time into your bike or run.

 

The swim is too easily influenced by outside factors on race day where the ride and more so the run are totally up to yourself.

 

No good training an extra 2, 3 or 4 hrs in the pool per week only to smacked in the face by someone on race day or being slowed by a big pack. You would be much better off knowing you could run 15min quicker

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There is a school of thought that would say you would be better off putting the extra time into your bike or run.

 

The swim is too easily influenced by outside factors on race day where the ride and more so the run are totally up to yourself.

 

No good training an extra 2, 3 or 4 hrs in the pool per week only to smacked in the face by someone on race day or being slowed by a big pack. You would be much better off knowing you could run 15min quicker

 

The main problem with triathletes and swimming is that we are following swimmers programs. Swimming events have nothing in common with a triathlon swim.

 

The guy that was coaching me n Tokyo completely redefined the way I train in the pool.

 

 

Zero time base work until 6 weeks to go

Big focus on technique done in 10-25m intervals, with a complete breakdown of the stroke

Big focus on learning how to swim very fast. We start at 15-25m efforts and only build distance once we have the speed. My benchmark was 20x25m all under 15sec on a 1min cycle. Then he would let me move to 50's

Tempo swimming......cadence, cadence, cadence. The golf drill should be banned for life. Triathletes need to turn over their arms not slow it down.

Open water swims rock.

 

You don't need to swim alot, IF the swimming is good quality. We would manage about 2-2.5km in an hour, but all quality and we were still recovered well enough to focus on where the time gains will be made the most.......bike/run

 

Google swim smooth website. Lots of good stuff in there.

 

What should a triathlon swim squad look like?

3 lanes doing rotations

Lane 1 would be working on speed (ie sprints, paddles, band only)

Lane 2 would be work on endruance and Triathlon specific skills and stratgies (drafting, pace changes, sighting, etc)

Lane 3 would be working on technical (identify what you can't do and focus on correcting that flaw)

Rotate every 20min.

 

What a triathlon swim squad should not look like

1km warmup mixed stroke

Main set

24x100 on a 1:30 (overseeding yourself so that you're down to a 5sec rest by the 1/2 way point, get too tired whack on the pull buoy :lol: , lungs are about the burst but your muscles feel fine). Boy that was good set. :lol:

500-1000m of kick drills or drills that are the same for everyone. Finz on.

400 cooldown.

 

 

 

fluro

Edited by fluro2au

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got the feeling of running fatigued every week.

 

I discovered the benefit of running fatigued by accident and now it's an integral part of what I do. On return to land running from knee injury, I started baby runs after each swim squad as an injury minimization strategy as I was already nicely warmed up. The runs got longer and I discovered the fatigue benefits. Plus it is very time efficient, a real bonus in finding a bit of extra family time. My longest double has been a 90 minute squad and a 1:45 run, all before breakfast.

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