Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
CQTri

Trannie Kona Qualification Study

Recommended Posts

Guest Mister Marsellus Wallace
I dont have time to look up old training logs but here's a few observations I've made about myself and other close friends that have been to the Island:

 

-Consistency over anything else leads to greatest improvements

-Quality reigns supreme over volume

-Core strength( and I mean real core strength really focused fine muscle control ) will have more affect on your IM times than any other training you do

-When you just enjoy it and dont live like a tri nerd you get fit and race fast

-Get a handle on your stomach- again getting your nutrition right will do much more than that 4th bike in a week or extra 20k run

-When you are tired rest then rest some more- this is part of the training- if you are training consistently and feel like you are resting too much you probably have it just right

-Recovery is a training session! The ice baths, compression garments, lying still have huge affect on whether a session works or not- more than you think. Way more. Its the interest paid on the deposits in the bank

-There are only really 1 to 2 important sessions in the whole week- get these right (rest up, nail the nutrition,recover properly) and your results will go throught the roof

-Going to podiatrists,doctors,phsios and chiro is training! The time spent here will have more effect on your results on that extra training session

-Never train only on your own

-Never train only with a group

-Dont ever worry about the speed of anyone in training. The fastest guys are usually the slowest trainers

-Minimise time on diaries,electronics, logs etc- it makes f-k all difference and is just time that can be spent training/resting/socialising

-on race day dont race- the fastest guys almost invariably accept that what you put out on a race course is not too much different to the compfortable tempo pace you do in training- no miracle will ever occur on race day

-learn how to swim 400m very fast and settle down to aerobic- the first 400m of an IM swim makes more difference to your time than any amount of swim training- get away get in a good group and settle into the draft

-always ride the bike so that it feels like you should have gone harder

-the fastest guys on the bike tend to spend the most time on their equipment and fit they are not usually the most powerfull bikers on paper

-never worry about the pace of the first 5km of the run

-the fastest IM runners are very rarely the fastest runners on paper but they focus their training on running relaxed and efficiently

-for a working stiff there is rarely any marginal returns above about 15-18hrs per week

-dont keep training/racing if its not fun or you feel tired constantly- the old IM'ers must train through tiredness is BS.

 

Brilliant!

 

Only think you forgot........

 

Good sleep is the BEST training..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would hate to see how Ricky from Tasmania would go in the harsh sun in Hawaii :lol:

 

That jaggard race suit he was wearing at Busso wouldn't last 5 minutes out on the Queen K - temp clock on the side of the road was 44 deg.. :D

 

 

consistanecy , no injuries and feeling good at the start of every session - would be the 3 best things i would wish for in training for a ironman. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, thanks for the responses.

 

Definitely a broad spectrum of replies and some pearls in there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I know I totally lack any reminant of "mongrel", but man I just can't get enough suffering

 

What's the difference?

 

Isn't 'mongrel' just a dogged refusal to stop when you really should, aka enjoy suffering or is it something else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will dig up my data on the weekend to give you a "just scraped in" perspective.

 

Agree with most comments above. It is definitely worth the suffering and sacrifices.

 

Quality vs quantity is particularly relevant on the bike. I had a shocker on the bike at Kona in 08. I looked at my ride data over winter 08 compared with my ride data before NZIM 08 (where I qualified) and although I was doing similar miles I was not going as hard on similar rides in winter. Junk miles on the bike just make you tired without much fitness gain, assuming you have a reasonable base.

 

If you are trying to work out where would be the best place to qualify looking at times from previous years, don't forget to factor in that every year the age group will go faster assuming the same conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great thread, and thanks to all for the tips!

 

Couple of questions...

 

- pick 2 key sessions in the whole week and really nail them

 

So the 2/3 sessions you try to nail each week. Are they all interval sessions or TTs? I mean you don't go out to nail a recovery swim, right?

 

Also, can anyone expand on the "quality over quantity" term? I read/hear this a lot but am not 100% on how it works.

Is a quality session only where you are completely fresh when you start and completely hammered when you finish?

Does it have to be a faster time or higher HR/Effort than previous sessions over the similar distance to be good quality? I suppose I am asking if quality=hard?

 

Thanks,

Edited by MountainMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great thread, and thanks to all for the tips!

 

One question...

 

 

 

So the 2/3 sessions you try to nail each week. Are they all interval sessions or TTs? I mean you don't go out to nail a recovery swim, right?

 

Also, can anyone expand on the "quality over quantity" term? I read/hear this a lot but am not 100% on how it works.

Is a quality session only where you are completely fresh when you start and completely hammered when you finish?

Does it have to be a faster time or higher HR/Effort than previous sessions over the similar distance to be good quality? I suppose I am asking if quality=hard?

 

Thanks,

my quality sessions are setting a goal for the session and getting it done. for me it is always race specific. long ride, with a 10k run at the intensity i would start the marathon at, dictated by hr usually.

 

when i race the first 7 hours are completely familiar to me. exactly the same as any saturday morning. what happens after that will be dictated by your mind and more importantly , desire.

 

but dont discount the importance of quantity. in an ironman the fittest guy nearly always wins - or buggers up and still finishes high enough up. the 5 people in your age group who qualify probably all train alot more than you (not you personally). of course their are exceptions in luck and ability.

 

so i would say quality can be any sesion that has an aim, which is specific to your goal. if the aim its too mindlessly ride for 3 hours, just pedal, not hard, not easy, no hr, and you do it, its quality

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here are some more quotes from AC and Chucky V

 

 

"Hey Alan,

 

I am actually quite surprised that you haven’t seen any other athletes hitting those numbers and not pulling out some similar Ironman Times. Perhaps it is simply the accumulation of three years of ~725 hr years. I honestly don’t have any secrets that one couldn’t find online. Back in 2006, ~715hrs was tough and I was injured a ton. That year I just barely cracked 10hrs in an Ironman. Then 2007 I managed to hold similar volume without injury and got to a 9.5hr time. Then this past year, 725 hrs was MUCH easier and I met my goal of cracking 9hrs. Had I hit 800 or even 900 hours last year or the year before I don’t think it would have done me any good. Perhaps I’m ready to do that type of volume now…we’ll see.

 

My biggest resource in ‘06/’07 was Gordo’s old site. The one with all the tips. The information on that page is awesome. Plus a few of his blog entries. Mark Allen had a couple key articles that I found worked well for me. In the later part of this year Chuckie and his blog added some further benefit. To quote Peter Reid – “it’s not that complicated.”

 

Trevor"

 

"Thanks Trevor.

 

Nope, you top the list as far as training input for performance output at least in volume terms.

 

Definitely agree that stacking 3 years of 700+ hours has a very positive effect on your performances this year. Since most of the guys that I currently work with are AGers, that is very tough to do. That 700-800hrs per year represents breakpoint volume for most of those guys.

 

Also, not sure if you track intensity in your program but I suspect that the steady- mod hard component of your program sneaked up over the years with your impoved tolerance. 700hrs of easy training is one thing, 700hrs with a good chunk of steady and mod-hard main sets in another. I can see myself achieving the former this year but not the latter for a couple more to come.

 

This has always been a dilemma for the non time limited elites that I have worked with. More vs. Harder. Usually these guys benefit from more.

 

I'm sure you'll have a great 2009!

 

Best,

 

AC"

 

 

 

 

"AC,

I'm not entirely sold on the genetic component either, to be honest. I still think anyone who can train 25 hours a week for 25 weeks is capable of cracking 9:30 at an Ironman, assuming they throw some ever-ambiguous "quality" into the mix and then execute the details properly come race day. If they can train 25 hours a week for 250 weeks they ought to be faster yet, but they still need to nail those pesky little race day details (i.e., pacing properly/fueling optimally). In less-than-scientific terms: work = results.

 

But let's say a guy or gal possesses a lofty max O2 uptake and does all of the above equally as well as someone whose VO2max is 20% lower; won't they just annihilate the poor sucker? (Over-simplified, I know...)

 

I'm sure you've seen the latest on sportsscientists.com. Here's the link for anyone else interested. Basically it comes down to this: talent = crap.

 

Hard work trumps all inadequacies...the latter of which I suffer no dearth, the former of which takes too much work. Thank goodness training is fun.

Chucky V"

 

 

fluro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest scooter
So the 2/3 sessions you try to nail each week. Are they all interval sessions or TTs? I mean you don't go out to nail a recovery swim, right?

 

AP is referrring to a Swim/Windtrainer/Run workout and the Big Day Sunday. The Windtrainer set is intervals, the swim is ummm..... AP can describe that. And the run is usally what you have left :lol: Sundays are the normal long days that most of us squeeze in somewhere during the week Bike/Run anywhere from 4 hours to 8-9 Hours :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (scooter @ Jan 6 2009, 03:40 PM)

Is this a limiting factor ? I may be in trouble.

 

 

it is. stupid people take a lot longer to understand the basic science and technical elements of quite a complex sport

 

 

 

This has to be the quote of the week :lol:

 

This is probably the most informative thread I've ever read on here. It's all based on the personal experience of a bunch of successful guys. Not some twit who has googled it and presents all the scientific reports and links :D

 

It's the "real deal" :lol: Any athlete wanting to make the journey to Kona would be wise to save some of the info on here :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
here are some more quotes from AC and Chucky V

 

fluro

Those quotes ring true with me for sure. I remember the training I did when I first started was at best 9 hrs per week and found it so hard. That same 9 hrs per week the second year was a lot easier to absorb and now feels like nothing.

 

I am seeing the light.

 

So a 700+ hr year this may feel like hell, but next year you will see the benefit of it.

 

Out of curiousity. Can anyone from experience say whether when you follow a big year with a lot smaller year, do you lose most of this 'base' or does a lot of it hang around for quite a while?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What's the difference?

 

Isn't 'mongrel' just a dogged refusal to stop when you really should, aka enjoy suffering or is it something else?

 

I guess there are probably a few different definitions.

The way I took it was that mongrel is the dogged desire to smash everyone around you rather than necessarily yourself.

That's what it meant to me anyway :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is probably the most informative thread I've ever read on here.

Agreed! Very interesting read.

 

I would say from memory that I think my mileage would have been comparable to that of Roo in the years I qualified. '94, '02 & '03, although as someone said earlier, you have only to race there once to get the experience that is an unforgetable experience, and for me, it was an experience that i didn't really want to repeat, which is why I did only the '94 race, of the 3 times I qualified. I like to race, even at IM, and I couldn't do that in Kona, too hot for me, and I acknowledged that. I loved racing NZ, I could actually have a go and have a chance at a decent finish. To just participate is not something that interests me, which again is why I don't compete any more, I don't have time or motivation to do all the training required to go as fast as I think I could, and for me, it'd be time wasted training just to participate.

 

Gonna get flamed for that i'm sure! But hey, rather know when to call it a day than be an obsessive compulsive that doesn't know when to stop. Too many triathletes around like that already!

 

Hawaii is of course the pinnacle of our sport, and anyone who has the chance to race there should jump at it, but never feel like you 'need' to race at hawaii to justify doing Im.

 

As has been said a couple of times, the 3 main factors for IM improvement are

1) consistency

2) consistency

3) consistency

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would say from memory that I think my mileage would have been comparable to that of Roo in the years I qualified.

I can't beleive that you haven't kept your computer files from 94 to show us :lol::lol:

 

You raise an interesting point though. Is it possible to just 'participate' and qualify or do you have to 'race'?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't beleive that you haven't kept your computer files from 94 to show us :lol::lol:

 

You raise an interesting point though. Is it possible to just 'participate' and qualify or do you have to 'race'?

 

As a serial participator I'd say no. I know my mindset is very different to those racing for the pointy end. You need to be a lot hungrier for it than I am to get to Kona. But I still get a lot of satisfaction out of participating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lol::lol::D:D:D;)

 

We have made the big time now.

 

A trannie thread that initiated an ST thread

 

After reading, suggest not going there, best comments below, as the thread goes Off Topic pretty tragically

Edited by CQTri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jusy wanted to add my two cents to cervelorider: lotto sux! You people out there that take lottery positions are thieves, stealers of a dream the rest of us self respecting triathletes aspire to earn with years of hard work and training, sweat, sacrifice, and injury. Ironman should be ashamed they provide it, it sickens me. Maybe their should be a lottery to play quarterback for one play in the superbowl too, or a lottery to swim the 400IM in the olympics. F'n GAY.

 

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some comments from ST I liked

 

So, my number one tip is to RIDE THE BIKE. This needs to be a complete shift in your thinking. Ride 7 days a week. Ride 10 hours on weekdays and 10 more on the weekends. Bike before you bike, and then bike some more. You will cut 30 minutes off of your RUN split by doing this.

 

:lol:

 

Man do you guys have the ability to actually stay on topic? Reading through the thread in OZ there is a lot of very useful tips being offered

 

Thanks for the link

Edited by CQTri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good one to back up Fluro's original estimate

 

2008 Training Load: 571,000 yds swimming; 7,711 miles biking; 1,373 miles running; and some other miscellaneous hours in the gym; grand total hours: 716 (13.8 hrs per week).

 

Experience: Qualified at IMCDA in June 2008; first IM, but starting doing shorter tri's in 2003; slowly built the volume. Athletic background: All American swimmer (1986-1989).

 

Tip #1: (General) Consistency and focus. In early 2008, I told myself I was going to qualify for Kona. For the next six months, it seemed like a singular focus. While my training load wasn't off-the-charts, this quest was all consuming.

 

Tip #2: (Specific training idea): The long bike/run brick. Every three weeks for three months prior to the race, I did a 5hr ride/1hr run. I rode the bike at IM pace and ran at 30 seconds under IM pace. If I couldn't do that, I would make adjustments to nutrition or pacing, or I would adjust my IM expectations. In essence, I dialed in my bike pacing and nutrition so that come race day, I had eliminated some (but not all) variables. I was pretty certain I could ride 5:20 and run 3:30. Having confidence in your pacing going into an IM is key.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

who's that yoyo guy over there ? he's out of control.................... :lol:

 

very opinionated on the white clothing thread.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
who's that yoyo guy over there ? he's out of control.................... :lol:

very opinionated on the white clothing thread.......

on fire :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trannie Kona Qualification Study 1234

Roo, Jawa, Knackered, Matty, Coghead, Bulldog, SilentR

 

Very amusing, I don't see the names of those distinguished gentlemen who have argued the case for "making excuses" :lol:

 

The ones who came out fighting at the challenge to "spend one week of the year without making any excuses" :D

 

I wonder why they weren't ask to comment on this thread :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:D:D;):blink:;):blush:

 

We have made the big time now.

 

A trannie thread that initiated an ST thread

 

After reading, suggest not going there, best comments below, as the thread goes Off Topic pretty tragically

good to see the yanks were able to provide some useful info for the average punter out there :lol::lol::D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Very amusing, I don't see the names of those distinguished gentlemen who have argued the case for "making excuses" :lol:

 

The ones who came out fighting at the challenge to "spend one week of the year without making any excuses" :D

 

I wonder why they weren't ask to comment on this thread :lol:

 

Perhaps none of them have done an IM....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps none of them have done an IM....

 

Perhaps that's the case.

 

Perhaps also, none of those that 'came out fighting' were against the take home message of the thread, just were appalled at the way it was put across :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×