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Trannie Kona Qualification Study

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I think you'll find the seppos are not much different now. its getting just as hard over there too in the big age groups

what you will find is lottery/community/charity entrants from USA that show up which make all the other seppos look bad

Also due to the number of USA IM's in the older age groups pretty much anyone who wants to go can go within reason just show up to enough races

The Euro's still have it the toughest and train the hardest by far and by my observations know a lot about using and obtaining "medicines"

The Euros also seem to have a lot of state funding,military,social subsidy and govt jobs that permitt a full time triathlete amateur lifestyle

Edited by Jimmy C

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Yeah but lets remember he was a pro cyclist before all that. I am betting his total base hours are enormous.

 

Pee is a strange unit. His diet ,sleep patterns, lack of regimen and general disdain for anything serious used to puzzle most of the guys he used to blow away

nothing like a guy chatting to you comfortably and incessantly when you are riding at 45km threshold

 

he used to drive people insane - ask anyone who got stuck with him on a run . he would pull up alongside and "ask " if he could "run with you and just chat" > he'd then cruise along at 4.30m/k and never shut up while you were gasping!

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Yeah but lets remember he was a pro cyclist before all that. I am betting his total base hours are enormous.

 

Bloddy ex pro's will always kick our ass.

 

David and I had a swim race last saturday, an all out 100m sprint. He gave me a 5 sec start. He still kicked my ass and I did a 1:15 right at the end of our main set doing free. He came past me doing backstroke in 1:08 :lol:

 

fluro :lol:

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This is what I have so far

 

This is the study but the link does not work. if anyone has a hard copy that could be posted that would be great

 

www.triahtlontrainingsurvey.net/kona.html

 

 

"The average V02max for a young healthy male is 45-55ml.kg.min. The average athlete is able to improve his V02max by approximately 5-15%. This equates to having a V02max of around 62ml.kg.min. A study conducted by O’Toole on 30-34yr old Hawaii Ironman qualifiers shows that they have a V02max of around 60-65ml.kg.min. What does all this mean? It will mean that you don’t need to be a genetic freak in order to qualify for Hawaii. It will mean that the average person with the right level of commitment can qualify for Hawaii. You have the potential, you just need the desire. "

 

"Studies have shown that there is a strong correlation between training volume and IM performance. In laymen’s terms those that went faster train more. So you’re probably thinking what would then be the optimal volume be in order to maximize your chances of qualifying for Hawaii? Well I have the answer it is 840hours P.A. A study conducted by www.triahtlontrainingsurvey.net/kona.html in almost all age groups, excluding those over 75 year age bracket, the average annual training volume equates to 840hrs in the 12months preceding their Ironman event, in which they did qualify for Hawaii. "

 

 

"Training volume alone accounted for 73% of the variance between those they did qualify for Hawaii and those that almost qualified for Hawaii. In short, the Hawaii qualifiers are very consistent with their training, regardless of weather they will still execute their key sessions week in week out. These are guys that are willing to put together a 16+ hr training week every week for the 12months leading up to their Ironman event. "

 

"As you can see this is clearly a lot of training. Surprisingly, the majority of these guys also are working full time, married and have children. Without a doubt the primary limiter for those who don’t qualify for Hawaii is time. The Hawaii qualifier clearly shows they are the master of being time efficient. "

 

 

"The big stand out for the Hawaii qualifiers is that their training season in terms of weekly volume is very consistent over the course of 12months. There is no off season for these guys. Early season training consists of incorporating specific single sport focus blocks of swimming, riding and running. The colder months seem to be dedicated to focusing on doing running blocks. The running focus appears to be a requirement for most Hawaii qualifiers and this clearly shows up in their results. Hawaii qualifiers are able to run between 3:00-3:30, which appears to be a prerequisite for qualifying. "

 

I really love this last point. I think until you can run a sub 3:30 you need to keep slowing down in the swim and bike until you can. Once you do that then your ready to start building on your swim and bike. Hawaii qualifiers that run sub 3:30's are the majority not the minority. Shouldn't running 5:00min/ks or just under on a well paced swim and bike be the most achievable thing to do in an IM, however, in reality it appears to be the most difficult.

 

Hope it helps

fluro

Edited by fluro2au

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There is nobody deciding whats "fair" on getting to Kona. Its only going to get tougher each year. You either pay the price or you dont go fella. But I can assure you every minute you spend over there at that race you think f-k it was all worth it. I've never met anyone who regretted the long hard sacrifice to get to Kona. I remember MMW saying he didnt appreciate how cool it was until years afterwards. Once you accept you wont be able to live a "balanced" life and qualify for Kona its a lot easier :-)

 

 

Spot on. I qualified in '02 and didn't take in the whole experience. It is only now i realise how amazing it was.

 

I want to go back - BAD!!!!!

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David and I had a swim race last saturday, an all out 100m sprint. He gave me a 5 sec start. He still kicked my ass and I did a 1:15 right at the end of our main set doing free. He came past me doing backstroke in 1:08 :lol:

 

Until you said 'backstroke' I was thinking 5 secs wasn't very generous of him.

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i had a discussion with a mate at lunchtime and here are the heuristic conclusions:

 

-Bachelor of IM(Kona) is a 1.5 year full time or 3 year part time course for most

 

-the core subjects take approximately 1800hrs to complete (3x600) ie 15hrs a week for 2-3 years on average

-the entry requirements are acceptable BMI, body fat under 15%, no biomechanical or injury problems and 97.5 percentile aerobic and strength capabilities (ie regular strenuous exerciser for many years prior to admission). NOTE only 5% of the general population exercise anyway so Im saying top 50% of the 5% left

-Most entrants have an IQ above 100

 

-HOWEVER a lower entry requirement to the above is acceptable once a 2-3 year bridging course is completed

-Mature age entry to the course is an alternative with reduced entry standards

 

-Grad Dip IM (Kona) has no coursework just an exam which is an absolute bitch

 

-Masters IM (Kona) >>>only about a dozen have ever been given out

 

-PhD >>>only 4 awarded ever Scott,Allen, Newby Fraser and Baadman

 

Haha The school of IM>>> I like it >>>get Hilly to be the Professor

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-Most entrants have an IQ above 100

 

Is this a limiting factor ? I may be in trouble.

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Is this a limiting factor ? I may be in trouble.

 

it is. stupid people take a lot longer to understand the basic science and technical elements of quite a complex sport

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This is what I have so far

 

This is the study but the link does not work. if anyone has a hard copy that could be posted that would be great

 

www.triahtlontrainingsurvey.net/kona.html

 

 

"The average V02max for a young healthy male is 45-55ml.kg.min. The average athlete is able to improve his V02max by approximately 5-15%. This equates to having a V02max of around 62ml.kg.min. A study conducted by O’Toole on 30-34yr old Hawaii Ironman qualifiers shows that they have a V02max of around 60-65ml.kg.min. What does all this mean? It will mean that you don’t need to be a genetic freak in order to qualify for Hawaii. It will mean that the average person with the right level of commitment can qualify for Hawaii. You have the potential, you just need the desire. "

 

"

 

Thanks for that info. Very interesting.

 

For the middle of the packers I note that I recently did busso at 10.54 with an average training time over the last 4 months of 11.3 hours a week, with weekly volumes of 5.4 swimming (I am a crap swimmer too - 1.11), 181km bike and 38km running. I was surprised when I broke it down - thought I'd done a bit more.

 

basically the exact same training for port has got me 11.23 and 11.25. For me this simply reflects the impact of the course with the same preparation.

 

I certainly adhere to what many people have said about getting to Kona. We had a two time kona qualifier living with us in the 2 months leading up to port and there was just no comparison btw his training and my training.

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I think there is someone who can top that !! Where's PeePee? I think he ran about 12k a week for 5-6 weeks in 2004 and knocked out a 3.12 marathon at IMNZ and qualified for Kona. Larsen(PeePee) used to just go out and ride 1000km a week for 4 weeks and that was his aerobic work done. He swam about 5 times in the 12 months before the race The guy was a freak (still is now for different reasons) Pee Pee where are you

I’ll say I have never been much of a scholar of IM training but have always generally done the training I think I’ll get the biggest return on investment from on race day.

 

I like doing the races but not so much the training and have generally been juggling lots of different things [study, business, family] making triathlon a side show rather than the main event of my life at any given moment.

 

My training has generally been

- 8-10 weeks of concerted biking 250-450km a week for a total of 3500km

- 4-5 weeks of running starting with 5km and maxing out at 20km for a total of 100km.

- a few squads and a few open water swims to refresh. A few times I have done no training swims at all before the race and just swum a couple of consecutive days in a row before the race.

 

I’ll be the first to say this is inadequate and not the best way to prepare, and usually I’ll be wishing I did more training at some stage in every race but I just have not placed that much importance on the events so if there is something to be compromised between family, business or triathlon then usually sport is the first to go.

 

I’ll reiterate Jimmy’s key points and add a few:

 

- training consistency leads to greatest improvements

- quality reigns supreme over volume

- improving body composition offers far better returns that fitness or strength

- pick 2 key sessions in the whole week and really nail them

- minimise time analyzing all the shit [or talking about it here] if it is time you could be training or sleeping

- spend plenty of time training at your desired IM pace

- actually think through your nutrition in a detailed way and assess if it enough [or too much]

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Spot on. I qualified in '02 and didn't take in the whole experience. It is only now i realise how amazing it was.

 

I want to go back - BAD!!!!!

 

That's one of the main qualifications, wanting it bad enough :D many would like it but not bad enough :blink:

 

so if AP didnt make excuses and trained more he would go faster

 

I am not making any more excuses, and I will go faster :lol: i was only 85% fit in Busso and qualified for Kona, I know I have more to give :lol: I didn't need to waste it in a qualification race ;) I walked away from the finish line as though it was a training run, I didn't even bother with a massage :D

 

i had a discussion with a mate at lunchtime and here are the heuristic conclusions:

 

-Bachelor of IM(Kona) is a 1.5 year full time or 3 year part time course for most

 

-the core subjects take approximately 1800hrs to complete (3x600) ie 15hrs a week for 2-3 years on average

-the entry requirements are acceptable BMI, body fat under 15%, no biomechanical or injury problems and 97.5 percentile aerobic and strength capabilities (ie regular strenuous exerciser for many years prior to admission). NOTE only 5% of the general population exercise anyway so Im saying top 50% of the 5% left

-Most entrants have an IQ above 100

 

-HOWEVER a lower entry requirement to the above is acceptable once a 2-3 year bridging course is completed

-Mature age entry to the course is an alternative with reduced entry standards

 

-Grad Dip IM (Kona) has no coursework just an exam which is an absolute bitch

 

-Masters IM (Kona) >>>only about a dozen have ever been given out

 

-PhD >>>only 4 awarded ever Scott,Allen, Newby Fraser and Baadman

 

Haha The school of IM>>> I like it >>>get Hilly to be the Professor

 

This is good stuff - very true :D

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It must b e awesome to be in an AG where your competitors have to unhook their dialysis machine and/or get helped out of their wheelchair prior to starting the race............... :lol:

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It must b e awesome to be in an AG where your competitors have to unhook their dialysis machine and/or get helped out of their wheelchair prior to starting the race...............

 

Look after yourself buddy and you'll be there one day :lol: get off the Hammer products, they won't get you there :lol:

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My training has generally been

- 8-10 weeks of concerted biking 250-450km a week for a total of 3500km

- 4-5 weeks of running starting with 5km and maxing out at 20km for a total of 100km.

- a few squads and a few open water swims to refresh. A few times I have done no training swims at all before the race and just swum a couple of consecutive days in a row before the race.

 

PeePee if you care to answer.

 

You come from a cycling background and I would presume do more cycling in the other 42 weeks of the year than swimming and running?

 

Why do you concentrate on 8-10weeks on cycling when I pressume this is your strength and less on the others? Aerobic return? Low impact? Just enjoy it more? Easier to build a strength?

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I will add a little bit here but preface it by saying that this is not necessarily a very good way to go about things.

The reason I say this is that I qualified for Kona self-coached and then trained under AP to actually prepare for Kona after qualifying.

I have subsequently seen that my self-coaching was very hap-hazard and I consider myself very lucky to have actually qualified. I have seen that there are much surer ways to train and greatly improve your fitness.

I'm kind of stuck also by not being able to train too much due to having to work a fair bit inculding some long shifts that wreck me for a day or 2 after.

 

So I qualified in 25-29AG (but had to race in 30-34 due to birthday) at Taupo 2008.

 

Swim: 1-2hr per week

I am really really not a swimmer. Did not swim in a squad at all.

Did 1, max 2 swims per week of about an hour entirely technique (did not use up my 20-entry pass in 4mth lead-in).

Only did this little because it was too boring to do more by myself.

 

Bike: 8-10hr per week

Trained mainly my myself or with a friend or 2. Tried to do lots of hills and one long ride per week up to ~5hr.

Indoor trainer also was very useful

 

Run: ~8hr per week

This was the main focus.

2 hilly runs per week of 1.5-2hr were the keys

Regular runs and tried to run 5x per week if possible

 

 

I felt like I was working hard.

Having since worked with AP I see that my body can take loads more than the above, but as has been already stated, REST is key! I still have a lot of learning to do!

 

So tips from me have probably already been said, but reinforcement is important!

- Desire, consistency and rest are all that are needed to get you to Kona (IMHO!)

- You can get to Kona self-coached but it's damn risky. If you want to be sure, get a coach.

- The run is where it's at. You will run to Kona, so train and race to run well.

- Anyone can get there for sure (see tip 1)

:lol:

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PeePee if you care to answer.

 

You come from a cycling background and I would presume do more cycling in the other 42 weeks of the year than swimming and running?

 

Why do you concentrate on 8-10weeks on cycling when I pressume this is your strength and less on the others? Aerobic return? Low impact? Just enjoy it more? Easier to build a strength?

Yes, regularly I do absolutely no swimming and running in the other 42 weeks of the year. This is something I will have to change though.

 

The answer is basically because I know I can fake my way through the swim and run on very little training and I am simply less passionate about swim training and perhaps not predetermined to be a natural runner to clock up the miles others do without soreness or injury.

 

It has to be noted that I can only fake my way through the run if I have a little cycling form to get me to the start of the marathon relatively unscathed.

 

Anyway, the answer is kind of all of the above. Cycling is low impact, very aerobic and I love to do it. Spending the same time running would give greater fitness results but I just can't slip into regular running like others.

 

I finally have a little goal of my own and I just ran my first run training session in a very long time today. 2km was all I did. One of the habits I would like to form this year is regular running regardless of the distance - specifically so that the next time I think an Ironman is on the cards I can contemplate 30-40km run weeks and hopefully the performance returns that would come with them.

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Not sure that I can add much to what has already been posted above. Some excellent contributions.

 

Agree that the path to Kona can be reduced (either in years to qualify or training volume per preparation) if you have been "fit" for most of your adult life. That's certainly been my experience. I don't seem to need to do the volume or the 12 month straight consistent training that others with a younger "atheleic age" (as gordo puts it I think) do in order to qualify.

 

I've been to Kona twice (2006 and 2008). Qualified for 2006 at my 3rd IM. I usually do a 14 week prep for IM, with average of 15hrs per week, made up of approx 8km swim, 250km bike, 50km run. And I'm certainly not a gifted athlete (pb swim of 65 mins). Think my background of being relatively fit for a number of years (albeit not in triathlon) and identifying what works and what doesn't, what's important and what's not (see Jimmy C's tips) relatively quickly [some will never get it] has helped significantly in getting me to the Big Island.

 

The other important factor that seems to be overlooked a lot in discussions re getting to Kona is the need to have a bit of "mongrel" (was going to use my favourite C word but thought better over it) in you. Unfortunately for some (and fortunately for others) I don't think that can be trained.

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The other important factor that seems to be overlooked a lot in discussions re getting to Kona is the need to have a bit of "mongrel" (was going to use my favourite C word but thought better over it) in you. Unfortunately for some (and fortunately for others) I don't think that can be trained.

Yup, point well made.

 

I have always said I don't have a god given talent to swim, bike or run but I have always been good at suffering.

 

I raced Kona in 2002 and 2004 via IMNZ both times and reckon you need to pick a qualifier that suits your talents. NZ always seems to be a little bit more of a grovel compared to other races so suits a good sufferer.

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I would second that "suffering" thing for sure, PP.

 

I know I totally lack any reminant of "mongrel", but man I just can't get enough suffering and I think that helps.

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I would second that "suffering" thing for sure, PP.

 

I know I totally lack any reminant of "mongrel", but man I just can't get enough suffering and I think that helps.

 

I enjoy seeing you suffer as well mate....... :lol:

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