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Trannie Kona Qualification Study

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AP/Plazbot may need to clarify this one but I didnt think any of the cyco's that qualified do much different from the rest of the squad hours wise, in fact I'm sure the man himself will tell you he does less however he has a bit of base !!!

 

I do have a bit of base, but very early in my training I discovered I could gain more by doing less than lots of others. If I tried to do what others do, I would break down.

 

In my third IM, I only averaged 3.8km swimming, 160km cycling and 36km running for 16 weeks into a race where I reduced my time from 11.56 to 10.44 :lol: During that build up I had two rest days every week and had bigger cycling weeks and bigger running weeks, I didn't swim at all until 8 weeks out :D (lazy trainer)

 

In my most recent race in Busso, I've listed my weekly plan below

 

Mon -- rest day

Tues -- 1hr swim

Wed -- 2hr bike 20min run

Thurs -- 1hr swim - 40min windtrainer wkt

Fri -- either 2hr bike 20min run or 2hr run - alternated + lunch swim 1hr

Sat -- rest day

Sun -- Long bike and run (totals vary from 3.30 to 6.30)

 

Result 10.31 :lol: I did rely on a 20+yr base and the fact that I arrived at the start line in good health and uninjured :D this is the "secret"

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I dont have time to look up old training logs but here's a few observations I've made about myself and other close friends that have been to the Island:

 

-Consistency over anything else leads to greatest improvements

-Quality reigns supreme over volume

-Core strength( and I mean real core strength really focused fine muscle control ) will have more affect on your IM times than any other training you do

-When you just enjoy it and dont live like a tri nerd you get fit and race fast

-Get a handle on your stomach- again getting your nutrition right will do much more than that 4th bike in a week or extra 20k run

-When you are tired rest then rest some more- this is part of the training- if you are training consistently and feel like you are resting too much you probably have it just right

-Recovery is a training session! The ice baths, compression garments, lying still have huge affect on whether a session works or not- more than you think. Way more. Its the interest paid on the deposits in the bank

-There are only really 1 to 2 important sessions in the whole week- get these right (rest up, nail the nutrition,recover properly) and your results will go throught the roof

-Going to podiatrists,doctors,phsios and chiro is training! The time spent here will have more effect on your results on that extra training session

-Never train only on your own

-Never train only with a group

-Dont ever worry about the speed of anyone in training. The fastest guys are usually the slowest trainers

-Minimise time on diaries,electronics, logs etc- it makes f-k all difference and is just time that can be spent training/resting/socialising

-on race day dont race- the fastest guys almost invariably accept that what you put out on a race course is not too much different to the compfortable tempo pace you do in training- no miracle will ever occur on race day

-learn how to swim 400m very fast and settle down to aerobic- the first 400m of an IM swim makes more difference to your time than any amount of swim training- get away get in a good group and settle into the draft

-always ride the bike so that it feels like you should have gone harder

-the fastest guys on the bike tend to spend the most time on their equipment and fit they are not usually the most powerfull bikers on paper

-never worry about the pace of the first 5km of the run

-the fastest IM runners are very rarely the fastest runners on paper but they focus their training on running relaxed and efficiently

-for a working stiff there is rarely any marginal returns above about 15-18hrs per week

-dont keep training/racing if its not fun or you feel tired constantly- the old IM'ers must train through tiredness is BS.

Edited by Jimmy C

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-There are only really 1 to 2 important sessions in the whole week- get these right (rest up, nail the nutrition,recover properly) and your results will go throught the rough

 

If you look at my program - Thursday and Sunday are my key sessions - all the rest are filling :lol:

 

I agree with everything Jimmy has said - Jimmy C is a wise man :lol: a lot of his training mates could learn from him, they will eventually :D some learn fast, some not so fast :D

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Great post, Something i have always wondered about is how much other people are doing. Now have baby and wife and averages are closer to 9 swimming, 250-350 bike and 60 running. I qualified last year and it included averages of 12.4km swimming, 431 km bike, (I love the bike and bike racing), 57km run.

These averages are only from JAN 1st- Race day. I never droped below 10-hrs a week in winter. It will be interesting to see whether the less volume will still get me over the line.

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Thanks to contibitors - Fing great thread.

 

This site freaks me out by reading my mind. I was only thinking this morning what others have done to get get to kona.

 

Wasnt there a guy in the states that had a site that analyized all this and the magic figure was liek 760 hrs per year??

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Thanks to contibitors - Fing great thread.

 

This site freaks me out by reading my mind. I was only thinking this morning what others have done to get get to kona.

 

Wasnt there a guy in the states that had a site that analyized all this and the magic figure was liek 760 hrs per year??

 

 

That is the document I have, but only a papercopy. I have tried to locate it on the web and I have tried to contact him. No success.

 

fluro

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That is the document I have, but only a papercopy. I have tried to locate it on the web and I have tried to contact him. No success.

 

fluro

who is david?

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David Holderbach. I train with him here in Tokyo.

 

He is from France

 

fluro

did he qualify on this milage??

 

sorry, im not sure what we are supposed to be looking at here

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I don't have my training data here...but in the meantime the following is part of a very good article (see link for full text) over on Xtri by Chuckie V (not to be confused with our beloved Chuckie M!!), with some interesting parts highlighted.

One of the primary goals for any multisport coach, whether he or she guides pros or age-groupers (or, ahem, both), is to maximize the training time available. In Dead Poets lingo: to make the most of time. This, of course, is especially important for the working triathlete, as it's tacitly understood that his or her available training time is restricted by the realities of their life.

 

With professional athletes it's generally pretty easy to override any errors in training by simply adding more training volume! After two and a half decades in endurance sports I can vouch that this line of attack by and large works, silly as it may sound. Two wrongs do make a right! When in doubt, pile it on! Turn up the volume dude! Or, as good ol' Oscar Wilde quipped, "Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess." This is one of the benefits of being a pro, and one that the age-group athlete can only imagine. (Let us please disregard that the average pro triathlete's income is scarcely a fraction of what the average triathletes is!)

 

Lately I've had Angela train a lot in the pool, in hopes she might ultimately get so sick of swimming that she does so swiftly enough to get the workouts over with a little quicker. By "a lot" I mean A LOT. Loudon Wainwright III would be proud. Michael Phelps' coach, Bob Bowman, would be proud. She's done more swimming in December than most pro triathletes will do throughout the entire winter. Maybe even more than Phelps himself, the slacker. The desired gains are also coming, thankfully, or else I'd be concerned about losing the massive paycheck she hands me at the end of each month.

 

(In truth, I operate on a percentage of race income, so when she wins, I win. The pros I guide know I have a vested interest...Cha-ching. I fully expect Angela to win one or two 70.3s this coming year, while Heather should win at least one more Ironman, if not two. Trevor ain't far from some big victories either. You other pros, take note. Or sign on.)

 

But here's what's interesting, getting back to the maximizing time theme for a minute: Ang's bike riding has also improved and yet she's barely ridden much at all.

 

What we've done with her riding is simply throw out all the "junk mileage" and focus on "quality" efforts. Essentially, this is the exact opposite of what she's doing in the pool! Last year at this time Angela was riding more than twice as much as she currently is, roughly seven hours a week. But yet each time I run one of my little measurement tests on her, her fitness has remained the same as it was back then; this is an improvement in that we've done less and maintained more. Ideally, we'd like to build her cycling fitness, rather than just preserve it, but in order to give her swimming the jumpstart it so desperately needs, there's no other way…something has to give and it ain't gonna be the clock. In this case, that something has been her cycling volume. There just aren't enough hours in the day!

 

Thankfully, unlike so many other athletes, Angela is not hung up on training numbers, whether they're big or small, impressive or not. The only numbers she seems to fixate over is that of where she places on race day. It's up to me to get her to achieve those numbers and in doing so, it means (me) having to pay attention to the other numbers en route…those that matter anyway. Here's a little math equation for you obsessive-compulsive types: big training weeks add up to nothing if you haven't improved when it counts. And so the goal then is to teach her how these numbers in training relate to race day numbers, to improve her confidence when test time comes.

 

Test time is race day, the final exam.

All else is just a quiz.

Quizzes must prepare you for the final exam.

 

Quickly, some key things regarding these quizzes…

 

These quizzes (i.e., field tests) need to be equivalent to, or at least comparable to, the demands you'll face on race day, or else they have little relevance as to how you'll perform. I'll be the first to admit that an elevated FTP (functional threshold power) is nice to have, but does it relate to a five and a half hour Ironman ride? Um. Unfortunately no, not really. Real improvement is measured in relationship to your goals. It is also measured with precision and in precise manners, not in unrelated tests and certainly not in the ambiguous "I feel fitter" manner that we so often hear athlete-ignoramuses touting. Look, Jocko. It ain't good enough to feel fitter; you need to be fitter. And while racing itself is quite subjective (i.e., you cannot control the variables: namely Ma Nature and your competitors) it's the raison d'être of why we train--the final exam. The goal, of course, is to pass the final exam, as graded by you and only you.

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Guest scooter

Just to add to the mix does anyone have any REAL world data on what volumes a Pro would do. They always seem to be rather vague on the topic :lol:

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did he qualify on this milage??

 

sorry, im not sure what we are supposed to be looking at here

 

No he didn't qualify but it was in reference to looking back through peoples past history in terms of evaluating a 1yr block of training. Re: plaz's 1st post.

 

fluro

Edited by fluro2au

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Okay, I'm sitting here with my head in my hands, shaking my head and softly moaning "f..k me", over and over again.

 

I'm 42, married, no kids, one psycho cat. I work shifts, been in tris for 20 years. I had a heart valve repair in 2004, a knee reco in 2005. My one and only IM was Forster '95, a 12:59. So nothing brilliant, but that's fine.

 

I'm about two stone overweight (have been for several years, a real struggle now to shed the podge) but we'll get there - that's fine, too.

 

Nup, what's got me completely freaked is the numbers coming up on this thread about what's needed to qualify for Kona. I mean, I know I should have done more last year, but my grand total of swim, bike and run hours was 165. 1-6-5!

 

These Kona types are cranking out 165 per annum in their sleep, in one sport!

 

I do believe this is what one might call a "reality check".

 

Kinda like seeing the SLOWEST Kona qualifying time for Kona last year at IMWA for 40-44 was the lazy 9:48, or something like that.

 

Thankfully, I've given myself until 2013 to see if all this is feasible.

 

I will need every bloody second!

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As an amusing postscript, a wise old tri friend just rang me and we were discussing (lamenting!) this thread.

 

He made the point that you're supposed to up your annual hours by only 10 per cent per year.

 

Going on the numbers 165 and 800, me thinks 2013 might be a bit ambitious if I am to use said 10 per cent formula!!!!!

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No he didn't qualify but it was in reference to looking back through peoples past history in terms of evaluating a 1yr block of training. Re: plaz's 1st post.

 

fluro

 

i have a paper copy as well - seems his (alan couzens) website is no longer active. :lol:

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There is nobody deciding whats "fair" on getting to Kona. Its only going to get tougher each year. You either pay the price or you dont go fella. But I can assure you every minute you spend over there at that race you think f-k it was all worth it. I've never met anyone who regretted the long hard sacrifice to get to Kona. I remember MMW saying he didnt appreciate how cool it was until years afterwards. Once you accept you wont be able to live a "balanced" life and qualify for Kona its a lot easier :-)

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There is nobody deciding whats "fair" on getting to Kona. Its only going to get tougher each year. You either pay the price or you dont go fella. But I can assure you every minute you spend over there at that race you think f-k it was all worth it. I've never met anyone who regretted the long hard sacrifice to get to Kona. I remember MMW saying he didnt appreciate how cool it was until years afterwards. Once you accept you wont be able to live a "balanced" life and qualify for Kona its a lot easier :-)

Hi Jimmy C

 

* First, let me add my thanks to your very interesting list of dos and donts re Kona qualifying.

* Second, oh baby, I always knew it would be hard.

* Also, I've been there three times to watch (must do it, must do it, must do it ...)

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Thanks Steno,

 

Check out his weekly average run volume 1hr 33min (17.6km PW), and he ran a 3:33. :lol:

 

Amazing

 

 

fluro

 

 

I think there is someone who can top that !! Where's PeePee? I think he ran about 12k a week for 5-6 weeks in 2004 and knocked out a 3.12 marathon at IMNZ and qualified for Kona. Larsen(PeePee) used to just go out and ride 1000km a week for 4 weeks and that was his aerobic work done. He swam about 5 times in the 12 months before the race The guy was a freak (still is now for different reasons) Pee Pee where are you

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I assume an Aussie's training hours are a shit load higher than a Seppo's as it is a fair bit easier to Qualify for them....

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There is nobody deciding whats "fair" on getting to Kona. Its only going to get tougher each year. You either pay the price or you dont go fella. But I can assure you every minute you spend over there at that race you think f-k it was all worth it. I've never met anyone who regretted the long hard sacrifice to get to Kona. I remember MMW saying he didnt appreciate how cool it was until years afterwards. Once you accept you wont be able to live a "balanced" life and qualify for Kona its a lot easier :-)

spot on!!!

 

particularly about a balanced life.

 

you only have to do it once, then spend a couple of years repairing the damage :lol:

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I think there is someone who can top that !! Where's PeePee? I think he ran about 12k a week for 5-6 weeks in 2004 and knocked out a 3.12 marathon at IMNZ and qualified for Kona. Larsen(PeePee) used to just go out and ride 1000km a week for 4 weeks and that was his aerobic work done. He swam about 5 times in the 12 months before the race The guy was a freak (still is now for different reasons) Pee Pee where are you

 

Crap on stick, there goes the theory behind the stats. That is amazing. I would also love to hear his thoughts and tips.

 

 

fluro

 

P.S Like you said it comes down to just a few key sessions executed precisely each week every week. At the same time I was training another guy with us who went from 13:44 down to 10:22 in 1 yr. We did the exact same key sessions (only 3-4) each week but his hours were up around 18-20 PW. Just as good of a result as david's with a slightly different approach according to the time he had available to train. "balance" like you said

Edited by fluro2au

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Crap on stick, there goes the theory behind the stats. That is amazing. I would also love to hear his thoughts and tips.

 

Yeah but lets remember he was a pro cyclist before all that. I am betting his total base hours are enormous.

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