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2019 is a long way from the world most 40 and 50 something experienced, where there were some arty types smoking weed in a dingy bit of their school.

I don't want my kids to take drugs. Neither do I want them to waste evenings caving their heads in with alcohol. The happier and more engaged in positive activities the less likely kids will end up going down dangerous substance paths. But

with the mainstream availability of these things we have gone past the whole, getting wasted to deal with a trauma. Involvement in positive sports and social activities is a good strategy, but its not a guarantee.

Alcohol is the biggest problem in society, not only the effects from misuse, but he horrendous violence and sexual risk taking that's goes along with it.

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1 hour ago, roxii said:

If there was a world where these substances were legalised and properly produced I think there would be less harm and suffering when compared with alcohol. 

 

 

Well it kind of does in certain parts of the world - e.g portugal. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

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Odd stance there Zed. 

 

Because you are inclined to binge drink and then run and spew you are not abusing a substance? 

Or is it because it's manly and socially acceptable to do it's different..... LOL 

 

Whatever dude.... 🤦‍♂️

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1 minute ago, Jim Shortz said:

Odd stance there Zed. 

 

Because you are inclined to binge drink and then run and spew you are not abusing a substance? 

Or is it because it's manly and socially acceptable to do it's different..... LOL 

 

Whatever dude.... 🤦‍♂️

sports, solid family left me not even having a beer until I was 20. On the flip side getting injured so I stopped playing basketball and soccer led me easily into drinking.

Its all too easy to think that Friday means 12 beers starting at 4 an then onto the night. Wednesdays are good to when a student and it is all too easy to fit in as there are loads of others doing it.

You can see 6 years evaporate standing still, wondering why you are still working petrol and odd jobs while everyone else has moved on. You get bitter and bad things happen on the grog as big drinkers are all treating something.

Sports in this case triathlon provided a focus and I moved away from that. Don't know what the drug culture is like, can't imaging heroin and crack foster happy healthy lives, but alcohol and out acceptance of it s abuse and normalisation of unacceptable behaviour eg Melbourne Cup, Cricket, or just any afternoon in an aussie hotel or club is a massive issue.

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46 minutes ago, Jim Shortz said:

Odd stance there Zed. 

 

Because you are inclined to binge drink and then run and spew you are not abusing a substance? 

Or is it because it's manly and socially acceptable to do it's different..... LOL 

 

Whatever dude.... 🤦‍♂️

dunno. Not engaging in the topic. It's too complex. we'd be here all day and not get anywhere. 

 

Note - I think alcohol is much worse than a lot of drugs. 

Edited by zed
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7 minutes ago, zed said:

dunno. Not engaging in the topic. It's too complex. we'd be here all day and not get anywhere. 

 

Note - I think alcohol is much worse than a lot of drugs. 

Agree 100 %. Alcohol is a massive issue

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24 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Agree 100 %. Alcohol is a massive issue

Yep back in the early days of raves and dance parties you were more likely to get king hugged than king hit. 

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It is the violence. Years of working night shifts and going out myself, there are lots of people who turn mean or are mean and just want to hurt people.

You see the ones who enjoy it liquored up looking to hurt others.

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3 hours ago, Flanman said:

Very disappointing putting in "hot tips" for your kids.

FM

That’s ok. Better keep it under the carpet. Scare them about the risk without giving them the info that might actually save their lives. 
 

Maybe cutting the break lines on a P plater’s car will scare them into slowing down as well. 
 

awesome. 

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3 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

Hot tipS for your kids who may want to experiment, even if they deny it:

 

1. make sure someone else is the lab rat. Watch them take whatever it is that is going around and wait at least 20 minutes before you even think of taking it.

2. Whatever you do, don’t travel with it to a venue. preload.

3. designed sober companions are essential.

4. don’t be afraid to seek immediate help if it starts to go south; and

5. Make sure that they know that you will have their back and won’t be overly judgmental BUT that they can always call you in an emergency.

My kids are too young, agreed with my wife that we would work on the principle that we want you safe. Wherever they are no matter what they are doing call us and we will come and get you, no judgment just be there for them.

Sex education was taboo as well, still have shudders of seeing the rooster go about his work in 1980s UK approved sex ed. Hope they have drug education for this generation.

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Mick Fuller phoning it in for Nancy Reagan:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/fuller-says-he-has-a-right-to-come-out-and-stand-by-policing-methods-20191122-p53d9e.html

oh, well - its not his kids in the firing line. His get on the turps and drive home drunk. How good is that?

I was working as a staffer for the newly elected NSW Labor government when 15 year old Anna Wood died of an (assumed you be) Eccy OD. Her authoritarian parents have led the ‘just say no’ and law and order approach charge ever since. At the time, and now I am certain that if they had given Anna my verboten ‘hot tips’ she’d likely still be alive. Almost certainly if there was a pill testing regime in place. Surely that’s what counts most - keeping our kids alive until they grow up. 
 

In saying that i am not oblivious to the dangers of addiction. Especially of amphetamines and derivatives such as MDMA.  But dead Is dead. No coming back from that.

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I don't know if we've ever talked that much with our kids about alcohol and drugs?  My daughter, who's at schoolies, knows she's allowed to drink if she wants to, but doesn't.  She knows she doesn't have to hide it from us.  She had an after formal party here with 30 odd kids, most drinking.  Some throwing up (why they chose the bathroom Basin over the toilet.....).  I don't think she's drinking without telling us, cause she wouldn't get in trouble.  The only dad thing I did was ask who was drinking and driving to schoolies the next day.  Many of the kids came in and talked to me and my wife, but we didn't try and join in with them (apparently there are a few parents around doing that).

I just hope we've brought them up not wanting to hide any of this stuff from us?  That would concern me even more than if I knew they were trying stuff.  

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What's the difference between alcohol and soft drugs? (Agreed that 'soft drugs' can be interpreted differently)

Alcohol is highly regulated, safe (as in you know what is in it - it's on the label) and the gov get taxes from it. Drugs are unregulated, you don't really know what your getting, and the gov get no taxes from them.

Alcohol is a drug - it's just a regulated one that is socially acceptable. 

Also, telling people over and over again that drugs are dangerous is completely ridiculous - when you consider that these same people go out week after week, year after year and take drugs and see no ill effects apart from a 'come down? Kinda like a hangover really...  Drug use is much more widespread than most people think.

I'm not condoning it. I'm just saying to open your eyes

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7 hours ago, Flanman said:

Very disappointing putting in "hot tips" for your kids.

FM

I find this tip rather strange...

1. make sure someone else is the lab rat.

I get it, but...... The average poor performance in Ironmans is...... I couldn't handle the nutrition they provided....didn't agree with my stomach.

This shows, not everyone is like for like.

 

 

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6 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

I find this tip rather strange...

1. make sure someone else is the lab rat.

I get it, but...... The average poor performance in Ironmans is...... I couldn't handle the nutrition they provided....didn't agree with my stomach.

This shows, not everyone is like for like.

 

 

yes bu that is nothing to do with the nutrition provided and everything to do with going to hard relative to the fitness of the individual. It is nicer to blame the nutrition rather than own it

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16 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

Hot tipS for your kids who may want to experiment, even if they deny it:

 

1. make sure someone else is the lab rat. Watch them take whatever it is that is going around and wait at least 20 minutes before you even think of taking it.

2. Whatever you do, don’t travel with it to a venue. preload.

3. designed sober companions are essential.

4. don’t be afraid to seek immediate help if it starts to go south; and

5. Make sure that they know that you will have their back and won’t be overly judgmental BUT that they can always call you in an emergency.

or

1. Take them down to St Kilda in the early hours of Saturday morning, help the Salvos out for a bit and wait for the first OD - a really good one where the Ambos don't think they can do anything to help them, maybe even call for the police to help.  Follow the ambos to the hospital, and try to get your kid to see an addict strapped down trying to beat the crap out of the staff.  Go back to the car park (Frankston hospital is a good one for this), and wait for a junkie who just had their stomach pumped break into the first car they come across to steal anything to pay for their next hit - hell if you are lucky follow them and watch them perform sex acts in a side street for a hit.  Ask your kid if drugs are cool now.  When they say "but I was only going to try hash once" introduce them to a junkie with a f*cked up life who also only "wanted to try hash once"

Might save them from the trauma of seeing one of their friends being resuscitated after flatlining and the guilt of letting them be the 'lab rat' which could cause untold mental health issues for a long time and f*ck up any chance of a normal life for a while

Then go to the above suggestions as well if they still want to do it - even if they deny it

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The whole hash/soft drugs are a gateway to harder drugs is as the just about the same as saying alcohol is a gateway to harder drugs.  The difference as I see it, is that alcohol is legal. By doing 'soft' drugs, you are being introduced to the illegal world.  Might be better to decriminalize these drugs to avoid the introduction to the 'underworld'...

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I had a very large group of mates in highschool. All drank, but every single one of them who smoked weed went on to do exctasy, speed and basically anything elso they could get their hands on other than heroin. Those who only drank only drank. 

I don't know if smoking week crosses a line where they go ah well I've tried weed might as well try everything, or it's a natural progression of the scumbag they begin to associate with. 

I also think alcohol is a very very bad thing. But if I had a 6 pack of beer in front of me and a pill/bag of **** knows what it's a no brainier which I'd want my kid to take. 

That being said I firmly believe that drugs should be legal. 

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5 hours ago, more said:

I had a very large group of mates in highschool. All drank, but every single one of them who smoked weed went on to do exctasy, speed and basically anything elso they could get their hands on other than heroin. Those who only drank only drank. 

I don't know if smoking week crosses a line where they go ah well I've tried weed might as well try everything, or it's a natural progression of the scumbag they begin to associate with. 

I also think alcohol is a very very bad thing. But if I had a 6 pack of beer in front of me and a pill/bag of **** knows what it's a no brainier which I'd want my kid to take. 

That being said I firmly believe that drugs should be 

I went to a high school where we all drank, most of us smoked dope.  None of those who smoked dope went on to anything harder.  One girl went to gaol for nearly killing someone in a mva when she was pissed. One guy is in an old peoples home, though he's only in his 50's, he is an alcoholic, he didn't recognise me last time i went to visit him. Two guys should have been in to gaol for bashing their partners after they'd been out on the piss.

I'd sooner be surrounded by people who'd blown a few cones than people who'd been on the piss.

Edited by lawman
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1 hour ago, lawman said:

I went to a high school where we all drank, most of us smoked dope.  None of those who smoked dope went on to anything harder.  One girl went to gaol for nearly killing someone in a mva when she was pissed. One guy is in an old peoples home, though he's only in his 50's, he is an alcoholic, he didn't recognise me last time i went to visit him. Two guys should have been in to gaol for bashing their partners after they'd been out on the piss.

I'd sooner be surrounded by people who'd blown a few cones than people who'd been on the piss.

I've got a sister and a sister in law that both got on the cones instead of alcohol in their late teens / early 20s.  Both struggle to tell you what they had for lunch 2 days ago, both have just recently turned 50.

There is no set pattern on which 'drug' is going to do an individual the most damage.  I enjoy a nice spirit a few nights a week - take them straight now.  I was a BnS regular goer in my earlier days.  I'm not alcoholic (I have regularly gone months between drinks), I've never raised a hand to a partner and I still have my wits.

Plenty of stories of other people successfully microdosing on Ice, others have one hit and their life goes to sh*t.

It's all individual and not helping to say one is better than another, if you're argument is one drug is better than another and should therefore be legal, explain to me why ice should not be legal?

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1 hour ago, Cottoneyes said:

I've got a sister and a sister in law that both got on the cones instead of alcohol in their late teens / early 20s.  Both struggle to tell you what they had for lunch 2 days ago, both have just recently turned 50.

There is no set pattern on which 'drug' is going to do an individual the most damage.  I enjoy a nice spirit a few nights a week - take them straight now.  I was a BnS regular goer in my earlier days.  I'm not alcoholic (I have regularly gone months between drinks), I've never raised a hand to a partner and I still have my wits.

Plenty of stories of other people successfully microdosing on Ice, others have one hit and their life goes to sh*t.

It's all individual and not helping to say one is better than another, if you're argument is one drug is better than another and should therefore be legal, explain to me why ice should not be legal?

Completely get it.  The history I gave of my experience was solely  to balance More's one sided story.  

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13 hours ago, Cottoneyes said:

There is no set pattern on which 'drug' is going to do an individual the most damage. 

Exactly.

And this is why it's better for people to avoid them. I know people who were totally self destructive on dope and others who becamse pussycats. I've seen (way too many) violent drunks and plenty of happy drunks. 

I've never felt the need to drink or use drugs and have managed to get into my 60s in reasonable shape.  I don't particularly care what other people do as long as it doesn''t impact anyone else - which sadly isn't usually the case with pissed or stoned dickheads.

Decriminalising something isn't going to be good for that kid that commits suicide because he bought a cheap, legal pill which tipped him over the edge.

Like most difficult things, there's no easy, all encompassing answer. Either way there are many who are going get hurt.

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On 23/11/2019 at 11:33 AM, more said:

I had a very large group of mates in highschool. All drank, but every single one of them who smoked weed went on to do exctasy, speed and basically anything elso they could get their hands on other than heroin. Those who only drank only drank. 

I don't know if smoking week crosses a line where they go ah well I've tried weed might as well try everything, or it's a natural progression of the scumbag they begin to associate with. 

I also think alcohol is a very very bad thing. But if I had a 6 pack of beer in front of me and a pill/bag of **** knows what it's a no brainier which I'd want my kid to take. 

That being said I firmly believe that drugs should be legal. 

lol.....most of the people I went to school with who dopers rather then drinkers, went onto join the police force.  Not all but a high proportion. 

Fuller's interview is just bizarre, comes across he has no ownership or responsibility. 

Police should have mandatory drug and alcohol testing at the start of every shift.  

 

 

 

 

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We had the first round of random D&A testing at work on Tuesday. 

 

I was tested. 

Clear as ****. 

Then I happily confirmed to my co-workers that my type of weird isn't from D&A 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😎✌️

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In our blue collar workforce we see a very high correlation between the known drug users and the repeat workcover  employees.  It's taken me 12 months but by 1 January we are bringing in "incident" and "with reason" testing (Research suggests random testing does not work).  Surprisingly getting the unions onboard was much easier than the executive team - half of whom are known to like a weekend puff

 

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On 23/11/2019 at 8:33 AM, more said:

I had a very large group of mates in highschool. All drank, but every single one of them who smoked weed went on to do exctasy, speed and basically anything elso they could get their hands on other than heroin. Those who only drank only drank. 

I don't know if smoking week crosses a line where they go ah well I've tried weed might as well try everything, or it's a natural progression of the scumbag they begin to associate with. 

I also think alcohol is a very very bad thing. But if I had a 6 pack of beer in front of me and a pill/bag of **** knows what it's a no brainier which I'd want my kid to take. 

That being said I firmly believe that drugs should be legal. 

Yup that's what I experienced. Most mates who smoked weed, went on to do other stuff. Those who drank only drank. And where are they now? Some are broken men with drug habits, some are broken men with alcohol addiction. So yeah, in some ways, weed is a gateway drug. 

I think I get my knickers in a twist when drugs get discussed as there are so many urban myths and invariably the worst drug out there, alcohol, gets off scott free. Would I prefer my kid to have a 6 pack of beer or a pill? Obviously the beer. But what about 12 hours of drinking beer, shots, whiskey and spending the next 48 hours in bed puking their guts up vs 1 x ecstasy tablet from a known source that gives them a kick for 4 hours or what about a few dexys? If we're talking alcohol in moderation vs drugs, alcohol is the winner, but for many kids (and adults) there is no moderation and that's the issue. Puking your guts up from alcohol is socially acceptable, having a puff on a joint isn't. 

I think it's important when discussing drugs, to differentiate between the drugs. Ecstasy and weed are very different to things like meth and speed. In fact if I had to list the drugs in order of how dangerous they were, something like meth would be at the top along with coke and speed, but I would probably put Ecstasy and weed below alcohol. Where would you put prescription drugs? Are they more problematic than illicit drugs? Again, like alcohol, they get a free ride because they're legal. Oxycodone comes from the same opium poppy plant as heroin, but it's OK cos the doctor prescribed it?

Just to emphasise, I'm not saying drugs are good kids, but if we're going to sit here and preach how bad drugs are, we need to look at the big picture i.e bring alcohol and prescription drugs into the debate.

 

Edited by zed

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I was watching a doco on a small town in the US that had been afflicted by meth use. A new drug clinc had been setup and they had reported 80% of meth addicts had come from an addiction to Oxycodone, before they hit the meth. No idea how accurate these stat is or if it's a global trend, but it's food for thought. 

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I just visited a family in rural India today where they grow poppies for their own use. They make up the gum & mix it with water to make an opiate drink which the men take every morning. Very weak, but still opium. They then continue on with their daily work. I can't say what the overall effect on them is, but was told when they leave the village to work in the town for periods selling their crafts they don't use, so it doesn't appear to addict them in the small quantities they use it.

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8 hours ago, zed said:

In fact if I had to list the drugs in order of how dangerous they were, something like meth would be at the top along with coke and speed, but I would probably put Ecstasy and weed below alcohol. Where would you put prescription drugs? Are they more problematic than illicit drugs? Again, like alcohol, they get a free ride because they're legal. Oxycodone comes from the same opium poppy plant as heroin, but it's OK cos the doctor prescribed it?

I don’t think it is safe to put drugs in order of how bd they are. This order is dependant of the way you consume and your lifestyle.

For someone that may have a beer 1-2 per week - this would be very different to someone who goes to town with the drinks 3-4 nights a week. Similarly a person on prescription medicine for 1-3 days is very different to someone who is reliant on drugs for what ever reason.

Therefore it is very difficult to say how each would affect different individuals.

But I do know where you were coming from. For me the occasional beer or wine is less harmful that anything else. 

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9 hours ago, zed said:

I was watching a doco on a small town in the US that had been afflicted by meth use. A new drug clinc had been setup and they had reported 80% of meth addicts had come from an addiction to Oxycodone, before they hit the meth. No idea how accurate these stat is or if it's a global trend, but it's food for thought. 

Isn't prescription drug abuse massive in the states?  I mean, I had mobic after my knee was done, and only used a few.  My wife was on Panadol and ibuprofen a day after her cesareans.  

My daughter is back from schoolies.  She and her boyfriend stayed in an apartment of 7 of them.  Neither of them drink, or took anything else.  But she said the rest of them started breakfast every morning with vodka and orange, and most tried something they were offered.

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Isn't crack is no different to powdered cocain, the only difference is it allows you to smoke it and is faster acting?Much like speed and ice are the same. 

I watched a doco on it and they reason they basically came up with crack is so they could sell 'happy meal' size quantities. But physiologicaly it's the same, just a faster and more concentrated delivery system. 

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6 hours ago, more said:

Isn't crack is no different to powdered cocain, the only difference is it allows you to smoke it and is faster acting?Much like speed and ice are the same. 

Sort of. Chemically they are the same but physiologically the different concentration and delivery method mean they have very very different effects. Someone high on powdered cocaine tends to just chat boring bollocks. Someone high on Crack is dangerous. I guess an analogy would be the difference in getting tanked up on 10 vodka red bulls  in half an hour Vs an afternoon slowly on the beers but more extreme, especially when it comes to health effects.

You can turn powdered cocaine into crack quite easily though so that would need thinking about for sure.

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