So is there a place in Triathlon for Clubs, is the club concept out dated. Options

[A Zed]

Tri-south do a great job. Good people and good racing. I miss those 7 mile beach races Azed. Back next season to take it up to those vets

Looking forward to it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Gunna have your work cut out for you though mate. Moore, Coombe and Percival are flying. Armstrong and Hitchens in a world of their own.
Look out for a Tasman Peninsula race in January too.

[SMF]

Melb Tri Club going strong, numbers wise, oldest tri club in oz and powering along
We have a presence with athletes at all levels, from beginner to whatever. Leon Griffen member. Free, casual and sessions with program backing.

MTC club coach

[bigkev]

Melb Tri Club going strong, numbers wise, oldest tri club in oz and powering along
We have a presence with athletes at all levels, from beginner to whatever. Leon Griffen member. Free, casual and sessions with program backing.

MTC club coach

Yep Cool

Another slighty different model with a Club Subletting and enhancing its programming with Professional Coaches


Seems to be a great model and working well.


Case studies in Victoria would be WSTC and Melbourne.from the most member perspective.


Geelong was also up there 3-4 years ago but seems to have disappeared.

[Fifer]

I ride with about 5 or 6 triathletes - non myself included are members of tri clubs.

Basically everyone in the group wants to do 1 or 2 half ironmans a year and then most years an Ironman as well. Might do the odd Kurnell race in there but that is about it. That is where the interest lies in triathlon amongst the group.

Pay the entry fee, turn up and do the race, go home and then do other activities.

No interest in joining a club or being part of one.

There isn't the interest amongst our group to do the short distance club races, so why join one?

I understand your point of view, for many of us the tri club offers zero benfits and many negatives. Where tri clubs do have a positive effect is getting juniors and novices into the sport. Once you have knocked out your first olympic distance and have some idea about basic training concepts then the tri club is actually a limiter on an atheltes potential performance. This is not even taking into account that the tri club generally delivers a hostile training environemnet where everybody is concerend with what lane they swim in, who they can crunch up a hill and people not pacing thier races properly because they are more worried about how their clubmate is doing.

For the avergae person who can read a few key books, scour the web or use a credible online coach, triclubs are a waste of time and money. They represent some of the worst behaviours in the sport and were the reason why I stopped doing tris in 2001

[miners]

I understand your point of view, for many of us the tri club offers zero benfits and many negatives. Where tri clubs do have a positive effect is getting juniors and novices into the sport. Once you have knocked out your first olympic distance and have some idea about basic training concepts then the tri club is actually a limiter on an atheltes potential performance. This is not even taking into account that the tri club generally delivers a hostile training environemnet where everybody is concerend with what lane they swim in, who they can crunch up a hill and people not pacing thier races properly because they are more worried about how their clubmate is doing.

For the avergae person who can read a few key books, scour the web or use a credible online coach, triclubs are a waste of time and money. They represent some of the worst behaviours in the sport and were the reason why I stopped doing tris in 2001

This is a really poor example, and total mis-understanding of what the average Tri Club is all about. Your example seems to present itself as more of an experience with a commercial performance-based training group, and not a true "Club". True Triathlon Clubs are miles apart from the description you've used above, i.e.

"...zero benfits and many negatives..."
"...then the tri club is actually a limiter on an atheltes potential performance..."
"...the tri club generally delivers a hostile training environemnet..."

What on earth could the "many negatives" be? I bet if you polled that over here, you'd get 95%+ disputing that Clubs provide any sort of hostile environment - presuming of course you've had experience with a state-affiliated "Club". I also can't believe you haven't been able to since find a Club to fulfill your racing/training &/or social needs after your experience in 2001. There are plenty of Clubs around that would provide a totally converse experience to what you describe.

Locally, the Club here serves a fantastic role in offering racing & social opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be available in a non-metro location. As with other examples mentioned, we offer juniors racing, graded racing across all age groups, training opportunities for those that want it, and a wide variety of racing options (15+ races each season). Plus the Club members provide a substantial bulk of the IM volunteering ranks. The community spirit in regional clubs are what make them function, and what attract athletes to them in the first place. Our numbers keep growing and are currently at 175

My personal perspective would be to suggest that Tri Clubs perhaps play a significantly greater role in regional locations than in the cities. In rural/coastal locations, if a Club doesn't exist then the local populace has no opportunity for racing. There are obvious examples of fantastic city clubs who provide these opportunities - but the need for regional clubs is far greater as your rural cousins don't enjoy the relatively easy access to Kurnell, Nepean, BRW events etc...

As earlier posters mentioned, the relevance of the local Club is clearly not under threat

[A Zed]

This is a really poor example, and total mis-understanding of what the average Tri Club is all about. Your example seems to present itself as more of an experience with a commercial performance-based training group, and not a true "Club". True Triathlon Clubs are miles apart from the description you've used above, i.e.

"...zero benfits and many negatives..."
"...then the tri club is actually a limiter on an atheltes potential performance..."
"...the tri club generally delivers a hostile training environemnet..."

What on earth could the "many negatives" be? I bet if you polled that over here, you'd get 95%+ disputing that Clubs provide any sort of hostile environment - presuming of course you've had experience with a state-affiliated "Club". I also can't believe you haven't been able to since find a Club to fulfill your racing/training &/or social needs after your experience in 2001. There are plenty of Clubs around that would provide a totally converse experience to what you describe.

Locally, the Club here serves a fantastic role in offering racing & social opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be available in a non-metro location. As with other examples mentioned, we offer juniors racing, graded racing across all age groups, training opportunities for those that want it, and a wide variety of racing options (15+ races each season). Plus the Club members provide a substantial bulk of the IM volunteering ranks. The community spirit in regional clubs are what make them function, and what attract athletes to them in the first place. Our numbers keep growing and are currently at 175

My personal perspective would be to suggest that Tri Clubs perhaps play a significantly greater role in regional locations than in the cities. In rural/coastal locations, if a Club doesn't exist then the local populace has no opportunity for racing. There are obvious examples of fantastic city clubs who provide these opportunities - but the need for regional clubs is far greater as your rural cousins don't enjoy the relatively easy access to Kurnell, Nepean, BRW events etc...

As earlier posters mentioned, the relevance of the local Club is clearly not under threat

what I started to write and gave up looking for the right words for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[nrmoz]

Heh! Here's a challenge.

Don't believe Triathlon Clubs work?

Then visit with us May 1st; One Mile Beach, Port Stephens for the original and best NSW Club Champs; open race for NSW Association and club members only, over club distance to decide the metro and provincial club champs; followed by a rather large gathering (read end of season pissup!) to celebrate those winners...

Fun day; fun racing; an institution and an iconic event in NSW, and brings out the clubs enmasse in what is mostly an atmosphere of great camaraderie, friendly banter and fast hard competition...

Best bonding experience in the sport!

This post has been edited by nrmoz: Feb 9 2010, 03:39 PM

[Scuba Steve]

So is there a place for clubs in modern triathlon.
With the demise of the volunteer and the requirement to match training groups and corporate moguls is the club system outdated.

Would be interested to see figures around whether clubs are increase or losing their patronage.

So is the modern concept just pay for some one do do every thing for you so you can just rock up to races and race and go home.



Please discuss

Hi Kev,

I personally feel that the sport wouldn't be the same without the triathlon clubs. I've been with the Nunawading Triathlon Club for 11 years and president for about 7 years. It's not an easy position but it is one that I am extremely passionate and enthusiastic about, and I feel that rubs off on the other members around the club. We aren't the biggest club in Victoria but considering where we are located I reckon we are doing something right. At present we have around 110 adult members and 100 junior (4-11yo) members.

We hold 6 races over the summer period for the kids, and there is nothing more rewarding than seeing see young kids and their parents getting excited about the sport we all love.

I'm sure you'll agree, we certainly have quite a huge presence at the races we do. We don't have any super stars in our ranks, most of us are age groupers who enjoy the sport and training together and always looking for a PB. We also focus strongly on social events away from the sport. If you are looking for a great club in the eastern suburbs, check us out www.nunatriclub.com

Cheers
Scubes

[Fifer]

This is a really poor example, and total mis-understanding of what the average Tri Club is all about. Your example seems to present itself as more of an experience with a commercial performance-based training group, and not a true "Club". True Triathlon Clubs are miles apart from the description you've used above, i.e.

"...zero benfits and many negatives..."
"...then the tri club is actually a limiter on an atheltes potential performance..."
"...the tri club generally delivers a hostile training environemnet..."

What on earth could the "many negatives" be? I bet if you polled that over here, you'd get 95%+ disputing that Clubs provide any sort of hostile environment - presuming of course you've had experience with a state-affiliated "Club". I also can't believe you haven't been able to since find a Club to fulfill your racing/training &/or social needs after your experience in 2001. There are plenty of Clubs around that would provide a totally converse experience to what you describe.

Locally, the Club here serves a fantastic role in offering racing & social opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be available in a non-metro location. As with other examples mentioned, we offer juniors racing, graded racing across all age groups, training opportunities for those that want it, and a wide variety of racing options (15+ races each season). Plus the Club members provide a substantial bulk of the IM volunteering ranks. The community spirit in regional clubs are what make them function, and what attract athletes to them in the first place. Our numbers keep growing and are currently at 175

My personal perspective would be to suggest that Tri Clubs perhaps play a significantly greater role in regional locations than in the cities. In rural/coastal locations, if a Club doesn't exist then the local populace has no opportunity for racing. There are obvious examples of fantastic city clubs who provide these opportunities - but the need for regional clubs is far greater as your rural cousins don't enjoy the relatively easy access to Kurnell, Nepean, BRW events etc...

As earlier posters mentioned, the relevance of the local Club is clearly not under threat

Okay not trying to be specific and drga the tri club through the mud,but I can assure you that it was a tri club in bioth places that i lived. Not a commercial performance based training group. The latter are actually very good for improving perofrmances which tri clubs are not. I recognised the value of novice entry and juniors and I also raised the issue of the poor training environment that a tri club provides once you get past the basicis of showing up and training consitently for a period of time.

train with a tri club and you will spend more time racing in training, not good.
Training will not be sopecific to you
Once you move past the basic show up and train and start to get better the massive egos will take pleasure in trying to smash you in training

[Gimili]

Hills' membership is growing exponentially with a very broad base from beginner to some seasoned racers. Huge, huge volunteer base at club races, club champs, TriNSW races (even far Kurnell), a decent number of active TOs.

I'm pretty sure we have the only open sanctioned club tri race series in the Sydney region, gone open this year because of demand for places last season.

And watch out for the club-run Sydney Duathlon Series over winter, coming up to its third season.

I think the commercial training groups posing as "clubs" will come and go as a major force and clubs will continue to grow. I'm mystified as to why the state bodies affiliate them.

I see no issue with commercial training groups, whether defacto clubs or not. The clubs should be looking at ways to compete with them and make people want to join and thank these groups for growing the sport. Hill's seem to be thriving in the era of training groups so must be doing something right. I know in the spiritual home of triathlon in Australia, the Sutherland Shire, there are a few professional coaching groups and in they took on the clubs rather than work with them, think you might find a very different land scape in our area with the clubs hurt bad, but at this stage people seem to be happy to be part of both. Probably more a credit to those coaches philosophies than anything else.

I do know Brats did alot of ringing around of other clubs in Sydney after TriNSW affiliated HERT and the Board was split on the issue. Originally I didn't think it was good idea but the more I thought about it, why shouldn't the clubs compete, why shouldn't the clubs look to put on a superior product rather than trade of a lowest common denominator with no competition.

As to why TriNSW affiliated HERT, very funny, but I can't repeat it and besides you probably wouldn't believe me.......

If you want a grow a club, team based events are great such as the Scody Australian Club Team Championships at Penrith where everybody races together and as a club in a positive fun atmosphere. Probably the best event for club camaraderie I can think off. Up there with IM when your club has a heap of people do the race. After that, probably NSW Club Champs but that is loosing some of its shine with Tri wankers increasingly taking it more serious each year, I know in our club we now have people who don't rate the course and atmosphere and won't be back. think I can recall Nick saying people were giving it to ambo's last year trying to help injured athletes.... don't need that in our sport at all and a sad indictment of the way that race is heading, hopefully it will be reversed this year as I still think the event has a alot to offer.

Clubs... are they relevant, their membership base will answer that, what was it 5 years ago, what is it today, what will it be in 5 years??? Perhaps compare that to population growth in your area/ state to double check?

This post has been edited by Gimili: Feb 9 2010, 04:21 PM

[kal]

I do know Brats did alot of ringing around of other clubs in Sydney after TriNSW affiliated HERT and the Board was split on the issue. Originally I didn't think it was good idea but the more I thought about it, why shouldn't the clubs compete, why shouldn't the clubs look to put on a superior product rather than trade of a lowest common denominator with no competition.

Whether commercial groups should be affiliated or not is a whole other debate. I do have just one question though.

How do clubs run by volunteers with other jobs compete with commercial training groups who are run by people paid full time to do their job?

To me that's like asking an apple to be an orange!!

Kylee

[Gimili]

Whether commercial groups should be affiliated or not is a whole other debate. I do have just one question though.

How do clubs run by volunteers with other jobs compete with commercial training groups who are run by people paid full time to do their job?

To me that's like asking an apple to be an orange!!

Kylee

Depends on the group I think, take the groups in the Shire, all those coaches have jobs. It is an issue though in what they offer their members, but if the members don't want to a club race, they don't ask or don't show..... they might just be catering to 90% of the members of any club (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

One of the issues with clubs is they get caught up in how things have always been done rather than look forward. You need history and you learn from it but you can't forsake new ideas for your history if you get my drift

[kal]

Depends on the group I think, take the groups in the Shire, all those coaches have jobs. It is an issue though in what they offer their members, but if the members don't want to a club race, they don't ask or don't show..... they might just be catering to 90% of the members of any club (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

One of the issues with clubs is they get caught up in how things have always been done rather than look forward. You need history and you learn from it but you can't forsake new ideas for your history if you get my drift

That is why they don't want their own tri clubs. They have other stuff to do. Hert doesn't fit that example I don't think.

And totally agree with your second comment. History is important. You look at where you are now and where you want to be in the future. History tells you how you got there, what things you got right and what things you got wrong. You respect the history, you remember the history, and you use the history to hopefully improve the future. But you don't let it hold you back. At least, that's the way I see it.

[softy]

Something to note ( and it's not just triathlon clubs ) is that in the country areas, the numbers just aren't there to support a club. Clubs take dedicated people and support to make them work.

From my experience with the local boardriders club in the 80's - it was always the same people making the monthly pointscore happen and at the same time, trying to surf themselves. Then getting screamed at by people who didn't like the results from their heat or when I asked them to judge in 2 heats time.

Like most things, it's a personal choice. Always good to shoot the shite having coffee and muffins after a good session but how often does your training plan match the other guys?

Keep up the good work all you clubs officials.

[Fifer]

what I started to write and gave up looking for the right words for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

of course you are right and I am wrong, I see it all makes sense. Do you train with the tri club? Do you imrove

[Varondah]

I see no issue with commercial training groups, whether defacto clubs or not. The clubs should be looking at ways to compete with them and make people want to join and thank these groups for growing the sport.

..., why shouldn't the clubs look to put on a superior product rather than trade of a lowest common denominator with no competition.

coz clubs is run by volunteers. lil'v ain't got no time to work fo no doe mofo so how can she compete wid da pimp up da road who rakin in da cash when she got 3 mouths ta feed at home?

disclaimer: lil'v ain't got no kids mofo, jus an example

This post has been edited by Varondah: Feb 9 2010, 07:29 PM

[Gimili]

coz clubs is run by volunteers. lil'v ain't got no time to work fo no doe mofo so how can she compete wid da pimp up da road who rakin in da cash when she got 3 mouths ta feed at home?

disclaimer: lil'v ain't got no kids mofo, jus an example

but surely volunteers can put on a superior product and make people want to join them...... aim to be the best rather than exclude from the market

[Varondah]

but surely volunteers can put on a superior product and make people want to join them...... aim to be the best rather than exclude from the market

so you is saying volies can market a club to compete wid a business who is making money out of their efforts? Noice theory... in a perfect world perhaps.

Bit like RRR competin for rating with dribble M.

[Gimili]

so you is saying volies can market a club to compete wid a business who is making money out of their efforts? Noice theory... in a perfect world perhaps.

Bit like RRR competin for rating with dribble M.

depends on the vollies, when I ran the spiritual home of triathlon in this country, engadine tri club, got a heap of sponsors on board, handed out free gear to everyone, encouraged people to drink, even do some training, club almost doubled its membership, people leaving other clubs to come join us.... can be done but I admit I didn't have the energy to keep it going with having to work for a living and as clubs get bigger you loose that certain feel in my opinion .... plus I always felt guilty taking sponsors money, never really understand what they get out of it (most, not all).

ok, it not equal but doesn't mean we shouldn't try

This post has been edited by Gimili: Feb 9 2010, 08:07 PM

[mattp]

Interesting topic! My local club, Central Coast Tri club is going amazingly well, we have seen growth in the last 3 years from around 40-50 members to now well in excess of 300 members! To look if its worthwhile fostering clubs, you only have to come along to one of our club races where we have in excess of 100 people racing every month, from kids through to adults across 4 different distance options. We have a lot of families that come up and race with us, and for them, its a great way to keep active, have a cheap family morning out with the kids and meet some like minded people. I would argue that a lot of these people would not class themselves as "triathletes", just people that love to keep fit and think triathlon is one way of doing it.

I would estimate that probably 80% of our club compete in Triathlon's because they have a local club to go to that has 2 races a month, one an aquathon and one Triathlon (Duathlon in winter). These 80% probably never race outside of the club, don't intend to, and possibly don't know too much about the Tri scene outside of the club, and its just the way they like it. So I guess in short - yep clubs definitely work, they bring a whole new demographic of competitors that would never normally compete in a Triathlon, and surely that has to be a good thing for our sport!

Matt

[A Zed]

of course you are right and I am wrong, I see it all makes sense.

of course I am.

They represent some of the worst behaviours in the sport

triclubs are a waste of time and money

I dont train with my club. training isnt something we have gotten sorted out yet. I just dont understand the above two lines??? our club is free, you get to race $30 cheaper each race if you are a FREE member, the only time you need to put in is marshalling one race (while committee members such as myself do 3 or 4 plus all the other hours) and Im also yet to see any bad behaviour.

[Oscarjane]

Thanks Goughy for your support of the Toowoomba Club.

It does struggle every race for volunteers, which i think was the initial question, but we are lucky to have a great core personel.

The club is growing at every race and i think this is because it encourages participation on all levels and also because other races are so far away.