trilobite

Run cadence

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Recently listened to a podcast suggesting  any run cadence under ~180 steps per minute would mean you were over-striding.

Can anyone share some experiences / thoughts on what works for them?

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I don't think they can generalise like that, but when i got my first Garmin that measured cadence I was around 167, as my running has improved, my cadence has gone up to around high 170s and when I wear my racing flats, it's bang on 180. At first when I read about increasing cadence and starting practising with running at a high cadence, it felt strange and inefficient, but it now feels a lot more natural.

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51 minutes ago, zed said:

I don't think they can generalise like that, but when i got my first Garmin that measured cadence I was around 167, as my running has improved, my cadence has gone up to around high 170s and when I wear my racing flats, it's bang on 180. At first when I read about increasing cadence and starting practising with running at a high cadence, it felt strange and inefficient, but it now feels a lot more natural.

This I would suggest relates to you getting firstly....fitter...and then you wear racing flats when you are a lot more fitter for racing.

I know coming out of winter my cadence would be hugely dependent on fitness. Ironman shuffle versus a fast 10K at Nepean pace.

Edited by IronmanFoz
typo

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I think running form is first thing to look at , cadence is dependent on pace.

being able to maintain running form at any pace is more imortant than a focus on pace.

 

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The latest info I've read/heard suggests the opposite, increasing cadence can double the reduction of load at the knee that changing footstrike can achieve. Increasing your cadence  reduces stride length and can indirectly alter how and where you land. Instead of telling people to land a certain way, telling them to increase their cadence by 5% can be more effective. Just had a lady finish UTA22 after spinal surgery last year, and pretty much athe most important thing I did was get her to bring in her Garmin, increased her cadence by 10% over a few weeks while she maintained her training volume and her leg pain went away.

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depends on what they did to increase their cadence - I'd hate to increase cadence and still be over striding and having twice the impact through the knee and hip areas

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31 minutes ago, skinnee said:

depends on what they did to increase their cadence - I'd hate to increase cadence and still be over striding and having twice the impact through the knee and hip areas

If you increase your cadence, and your still overstriding by as much as you were before, then you're just running faster. :)

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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

If you increase your cadence, and your still overstriding by as much as you were before, then you're just running faster. :)

Depends on gravity 

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Biomechanically in terms of long term health get form sorted first then worry about cadence - do some video analysis of yourself see where you may have issues or get a good run coach.

cadence first to me is like driving a sports car fast on shit suspension 

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I suggest concentrating on trying to feel like you land your foot behind your body not underneath it.  It's impossible to land behind so you will land underneath you.  Also thinking about running with barbed wire between your legs to keep your hips and pelvis high.  

 

Then work on cadence.

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Methodically increasing cadence might help form and it's so easy to implement, 920xt metronome every 4 foot strikes or an app on your phone. Run tall. You may not be able to improve form if you have a poorly developed core so make that a priority. Have no idea how to ensure my foot is landing under my hip but hitting the right cadence with metronome is easy. Anyone true lumo? They might be useful for form feedback.

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53 minutes ago, Kiwinoz said:

 Run tall.

Interesting one. I've had 2 different run coaches go with different definitions of this.

One said imagine a rope attached to the top of your head, pulling you up.

The other said to concentrate on hips being high. With a slight bend / forward lean, brings glutes and calves into action. I feel I went to the same coach as rbr, as the barbed wire (electric fence in my case) analogy was used. This was to keep the pelvis level so I wasn't 'collapsing' with each stride. 

I trusted the second advice more that the first, but there's so much out there and hard to know what's specific to you.

I think the best advice would be to get someone to look at your form, and if you make any changes, do it gradually. I went from running 2hrs to 1min run/30sec walk, and was still getting some calf niggles. Now they're used to working though, they're massive....

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5 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

I suggest concentrating on trying to feel like you land your foot behind your body not underneath it.  It's impossible to land behind so you will land underneath you.  Also thinking about running with barbed wire between your legs to keep your hips and pelvis high.  

 

Then work on cadence.

Yep.

Concentrating on foot strike was what really changed my running style and helped me run more economically. I found that a lot of form corrections happened organically as a consequence of striking midfoot and level with my hips ie cadence increased naturally, body posture straightened, ran taller etc.

Edited by Hoffy86
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Run Tall.  Relax,  

During long run carry a mini band on runs and every 10-20mins do some band glute activations exercises.  Crab Walk and glute bridge hold (30sec each side)  Without saying waste of time give a go and see how better you run each time.  Keep you in better hip position and teaches glutes to be key element.  As RBR and Hoffy said foot strike but you will find doing these exercises as well, you will lead with knee better which translates to a better landing position.  

Do this in the off season.

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180 is very simplistic advice, although it is on the right track. There are 2 (or perhaps 3, and maybe 4) universal points to think about when you're running:

  1. Run tall - which starts with good, neutral posture. Suck your belly button in, and tuck your butt under.
  2. Increase / maintain a high(er) cadence - this is relative to what you normally run at.
  3. Imagine being pulled to 2 pieces of string at 45 degrees (upwards), attached to a) your chest / sternum, and B) your belt buckle.
  4. Imagine holding a $100 note between your butt cheeks that you don't want to let go of!!
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