98 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

This

Drugworld is a filthy, despicable place full of filthy, despicable people

I'm all out of f*cks

I agree. But I still think a number of Class A drugs such as ecstasy, coke, heroin should be legalised/decriminalised. The war on drugs is unwinnable, the huge amount of crime that exists because of the drug trade, is primarily because of the cost. Coke at $400 - $500 gram in Australia and an addict is probably going to go through 2- 3gms a day, where's an unemployed junkie going to get $1500/day from? A drug like cocaine could be sold for a pittance, $1, $2/gram. 

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I'm not sure it's worth it to then send a message to kids that drugs just got a bit more okay just because they can buy them in a shopfront instead of some back alley, and you're dreaming if you think the government won't tax the drugs to the same price they are now if they were made legal

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

 

She's technically not a smuggler. 

You have to get the drugs out to be a smuggler. 

Where's Jack Rackham when you need him? B)

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22 hours ago, FatPom said:

Ha, how on earth did she think she's get away with this?

At Bogota, there is a three step process before you even get to immigration security. There is a line way before the airline desks that anyone without a ticket is not allowed to go past  (security watch this to see who steps forward and who doesn't, it's at this point that the fat balding Americans say goodbye to their 20 odd year younger new 'girlfriends' :wink3: )

Then you go to the first airline desk check, they usually ask you routine questions about where you went and what you saw and then if any dates don't line up or you've had a date change, it's 

When I left, I was carrying a letter from the Colombian girl I was sharing a flat with with to her sister who livesin Sydney. I told her I wouldn't open open but I did, not only opened it, checked it, shook it six ways to Sunday and held it under a light. It really was just a letter but I was still shitting myself going through Bogota security.:lol:

That's piss funny FP.   I wouldn't even think of checking it.  

I have funny visions of you sweating bullets going through security.  

FP the drug mule   

 

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2 hours ago, Cottoneyes said:

I'm not sure it's worth it to then send a message to kids that drugs just got a bit more okay just because they can buy them in a shopfront instead of some back alley, and you're dreaming if you think the government won't tax the drugs to the same price they are now if they were made legal

Kids need to be educated. Rather than simply drugs = bad, they need to know which ones are highly addictive, what are the after affects from each type of drugs. Most kids don't have this information. And sure governments will tax drugs, but they are not going to tax it so it becomes unaffordable, which is the key. That reduces 90% of the crime. Drugs becoming more available isn't a good thing, but it's a better alternative to the clusterf*ck that is the war on drugs. Billions spent every year on something that is completely futile. Drugs are in more plentiful supply than ever in Australia. Instead of spending the money trying to stop drugs coming into the country (which isn't working), spend the money on education, rehab centres, clinics etc etc And the amount of deaths from illicit drugs pales into comparison with the number of deaths from nicotine and alcohol.  in 2011 11500 died from heroin overdoses in the USA, compared to over 500'000 from nicotine related illnesses. 

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1 hour ago, Prince said:

That's piss funny FP.   I wouldn't even think of checking it.  

I have funny visions of you sweating bullets going through security.  

FP the drug mule   

 

Yeah it wasn't the calmest of times!  After Colombia I spent a couple of months in the US and eventually met my parents in San Francisco for a holiday before heading back to Oz.  Every airport I went through in the US I was asked to completely unpack my carry on. I'm pretty sure my parents were ready to disown me:lol:

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2 hours ago, zed said:

Kids need to be educated. Rather than simply drugs = bad, they need to know which ones are highly addictive, what are the after affects from each type of drugs. Most kids don't have this information. And sure governments will tax drugs, but they are not going to tax it so it becomes unaffordable, which is the key. That reduces 90% of the crime. Drugs becoming more available isn't a good thing, but it's a better alternative to the clusterf*ck that is the war on drugs. Billions spent every year on something that is completely futile. Drugs are in more plentiful supply than ever in Australia. Instead of spending the money trying to stop drugs coming into the country (which isn't working), spend the money on education, rehab centres, clinics etc etc And the amount of deaths from illicit drugs pales into comparison with the number of deaths from nicotine and alcohol.  in 2011 11500 died from heroin overdoses in the USA, compared to over 500'000 from nicotine related illnesses. 

This. In a previous life I worked as an event manager for a couple of large dance music labels in the UK. I had to deal with three people who died from drugs, two because of bad drugs and one because they took so much they appeared to be trying to kill themselves. I also used to volunteer about 15 hours a week as an ambo in London and saw the fallout most weekends.

Fun drugs are fun. People will continue to take them because people do stupid shit for fun. Banning them doesn't work. Just look at the success rate so far... speak to any Colombian who's country has been ruined by the power of the cartels because of the money they can make because these things are illegal. 

I don't know any 7 year old who responded when asked "When I grow up I want to be a smack addict.". 

Addiction is an illness and should be treated as such. Recreational drugs should be legalised, licenced and made safe. That will save lives and reduce drug related acquisitive crime. I have had this opinion for the last 10 years and have never had a conversation with anybody who works on or near the front line of this stuff (nightclubs, ambulance or police) who didn't agree at least in part.

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2 hours ago, zed said:

Kids need to be educated. Rather than simply drugs = bad, they need to know which ones are highly addictive, what are the after affects from each type of drugs. Most kids don't have this information. And sure governments will tax drugs, but they are not going to tax it so it becomes unaffordable, which is the key. That reduces 90% of the crime. Drugs becoming more available isn't a good thing, but it's a better alternative to the clusterf*ck that is the war on drugs. Billions spent every year on something that is completely futile. Drugs are in more plentiful supply than ever in Australia. Instead of spending the money trying to stop drugs coming into the country (which isn't working), spend the money on education, rehab centres, clinics etc etc And the amount of deaths from illicit drugs pales into comparison with the number of deaths from nicotine and alcohol.  in 2011 11500 died from heroin overdoses in the USA, compared to over 500'000 from nicotine related illnesses. 

Having recently visited a school friend in pre-release women's prison for drug trafficking here in Oz, I was suprised at the makeup of the other 80 females in the prison. 15 of them were in there for dealing heroin...

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11 hours ago, monkie said:

This. In a previous life I worked as an event manager for a couple of large dance music labels in the UK. I had to deal with three people who died from drugs, two because of bad drugs and one because they took so much they appeared to be trying to kill themselves. I also used to volunteer about 15 hours a week as an ambo in London and saw the fallout most weekends.

Fun drugs are fun. People will continue to take them because people do stupid shit for fun. Banning them doesn't work. Just look at the success rate so far... speak to any Colombian who's country has been ruined by the power of the cartels because of the money they can make because these things are illegal. 

I don't know any 7 year old who responded when asked "When I grow up I want to be a smack addict.". 

Addiction is an illness and should be treated as such. Recreational drugs should be legalised, licenced and made safe. That will save lives and reduce drug related acquisitive crime. I have had this opinion for the last 10 years and have never had a conversation with anybody who works on or near the front line of this stuff (nightclubs, ambulance or police) who didn't agree at least in part.

Exactly. Look at somewhere like Lisbon, in 2001 they decriminalised all drugs. Since then drug-induced deaths have decreased steeply, crime has dropped significantly, HIV infection rates amongst injecting drug users has been greatly reduced and drug use has actually declined. Drug control was shifted from the Justice Department to the Ministry of Health and they instituted a robust public health model for treating hard drug addiction. What is the point in chucking some addict or low level dealer in prison, it does nothing. Decriminalising is not the cure, but it is not the disaster many people think it is or will be. 

 

Portugal shifted

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7 hours ago, zed said:

drug use has actually declined.

Really? 

So basically people take drugs because it's illegal?

if thats the case remove speed limits and people will slow down. NOT. 

I'm not buying what you are selling here. 

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41 minutes ago, Peter said:

So basically people take drugs because it's illegal?

Perhaps by shifting it to being a health issue, there is more opportunity to treat the addiction.

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I was amazed how many were caught 'drug' driving during Easter. that concerns me a bit, especially if drugs were legalised.  I would think it should be battled on both sides, more drug rehab centres and still nail the traffickers. unfortunately, we can't afford to throw money at more drug rehab centres.   More education would be better perhaps even starting at grade 7 or 8, and like was said, tackling it from a health perspective as I don't even know what the effects are on the body if you take cocaine or pot.  

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1 hour ago, XCOM! said:

Perhaps by shifting it to being a health issue, there is more opportunity to treat the addiction.

There is ample opportunity to treat the addiction now. There are also myriad programs to treat alcohol and cigarette addictions, none of which seem to be terribly effective.

I don't see a correlation between a drug being illegal and the services available to treat the user.

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On 5/4/2017 at 9:33 AM, FatPom said:

Where's Jack Rackham when you need him? B)

Better call Saul

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47 minutes ago, FatPom said:

I don't see a correlation between a drug being illegal and the services available to treat the user.

Speak to the police... they end up dealing with petty criminality because people cannot access the programmes they need because they are in the Criminal Justice System rather than the health system and the CJS is not set up to look after the criminals!

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7 minutes ago, monkie said:

Speak to the police... they end up dealing with petty criminality because people cannot access the programmes they need because they are in the Criminal Justice System rather than the health system and the CJS is not set up to look after the criminals!

Chicken and egg really. 

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2 hours ago, Peter said:

Really? 

So basically people take drugs because it's illegal?

if thats the case remove speed limits and people will slow down. NOT. 

I'm not buying what you are selling here. 

Agree with this totally. 

I'm not interfering with anyone wanting to have a good time, but where it becomes antisocial or dangerous for others who don't subscribe to the same idea of "fun" that someone wasted.... well, then is where it becomes a problem.

My greatest fear when out riding is not knowing who else is out there stoned or drunk off their face....

I feel the same way about alcohol and tobacco (and I work for a tobacco company) and they are both dangerous drugs and have negative consequences. Anyone in Western society that is unaware of the risks of taking legal or illegal drugs only has themselves to blame. I also think that decriminalisation has a lot of positive aspects, but it will have some negative ones as well, in that politicians will then crow that they have solved the "drug problem" by not measuring it anymore!

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34 minutes ago, monkie said:

Speak to the police... they end up dealing with petty criminality because people cannot access the programmes they need because they are in the Criminal Justice System rather than the health system and the CJS is not set up to look after the criminals!

And then you speak to the doctors who are already overworked and then become more so .... it is just shifting the problem around.

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9 minutes ago, Rimmer said:

And then you speak to the doctors who are already overworked and then become more so .... it is just shifting the problem around.

Let's take the money we spend on the "war on drugs" and train more doctors... this is BILLIONS! Let's put these people in the system that can treat them as the patients they are rather than prosecuting them for shoplifting (at a cost of thousands) and then giving them a £60 fine (my experience with this is purely UK based) which they can't pay...

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1 hour ago, monkie said:

Let's take the money we spend on the "war on drugs" and train more doctors... this is BILLIONS! Let's put these people in the system that can treat them as the patients they are rather than prosecuting them for shoplifting (at a cost of thousands) and then giving them a £60 fine (my experience with this is purely UK based) which they can't pay...

Agree with this and support it entirely - there needs to be much more spent on healthcare, but this is a generational change thing. Applying billions from drug law enforcement to training more doctors requires a level of long-term infrastructure and policy shift that most governments can't imagine.

How do you tackle long-term problem solving with short-term political thinking? 

It should not cure the problem, but it should alleviate it somewhat and benefit society as a whole.

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18 minutes ago, Rimmer said:

It should not cure the problem, but it should alleviate it somewhat and benefit society as a whole.

Correct. It will not stop Smack Heads being Smack Heads. You're already broken if you do that and legality has nothing to do with it. I once had a crack addict explain to me (this was after he tried to hit me and we ended up sectioning the poor guy)... the need to get drugs is like when you're really, really, really thirsty. Like you think you're going to die if you don't drink... If you think you're going to die if you don't get your fix then you will do ridiculous things. If going to a hospital, getting your fix and having a chat with somebody who can then put you in a pathway was an option... many people would do it.

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Legalise drugs and where do you end up with drivers?

Whats a threshold for coke/dope etc and be safe in charge of a vehicle? Bugger that

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8 minutes ago, Turts said:

Legalise drugs and where do you end up with drivers?

Whats a threshold for coke/dope etc and be safe in charge of a vehicle? Bugger that

Shouldn't there be one though? 

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21 minutes ago, Turts said:

Legalise drugs and where do you end up with drivers?

Whats a threshold for coke/dope etc and be safe in charge of a vehicle? Bugger that

Decriminalising doesn't negate the ability to legislate that. We already have roadside drug testing for legal and illegal drugs.

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