Rocket Salad

The Politics Thread

9,648 posts in this topic

Sorry, ex cronulla resident not local member. Stand corrected.

 

 

I'm sure his good work with the sewer-building is appreciated by his present-day party colleagues though

 

Gives them somewhere to reside...

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The unfortunate position that the ALP find themselves in now is that absolutely nothing is going to help them. Any slightly postive move they make is going to be seen with a cynical eye by 95% of the population. Nothing will be taken at face value. This will mean that they have to resort to trying to appeal to the greed and self-interest of the electorate to pull back their position. Look for big spending promises targetted at middle Australia.

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I think it'll come down to a Queensland style decimation, or chuck Rudd in and maybe save a few seats.

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Maybe it should be decided via a Gage Fight.............2 enter.........only 1 leaves.

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Been having a thought lately if it is a good idea to introduce limits on the length of time someone can serve in the top job at State and Federal levels.

 

Bit of a long bow to draw, but starting to wonder if the current situation at federal level can be tied back to Howard's decision not to hand over the reigns at an appropriate time, and after he went there was no succession plan in place on the coalition side as many possible leaders had pursued other areas.

 

Howard was on the nose with the average punter who thought it was time he stepped aside, met quite a few who voted for Rudd (labor technically) purely cause they thought Howard's time was over, even the good residents of Bennelong voted that way

 

Had Howard had a time line on how long he could have stayed for, would we have seen much more credible leadership from both sides? (Something like 7 years, somewhere just over 2 terms worth)

 

Same question for state politics, would we see better choices (and possibly less corruption in some cases) if Premierships were fixed for a length of time maximum.

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Howard was on the nose with the average punter who thought it was time he stepped aside, met quite a few who voted for Rudd (labor technically) purely cause they thought Howard's time was over, even the good residents of Bennelong voted that way

 

And I wonder how many of them are now sorry they voted that way?

 

My wife said that at the time there was a big push around her work by the union delegates to have Howard dumped.

Wifey asked many of her collegues why they wanted Howard gone and the standard line was he has been there too long and its time for a change. Not one said he was doing a bad job, country was in ruins, economy tanking, etc

 

Interestingly, many of those that were the most vocal now no longer have a job due to the slowing economy...

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We don't need fixed terms. Either the voter or an ambitious colleague will get you if you outstay your welcome.

 

 

Sure. That worked really well with Eddie Obeid.

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Sure. That worked really well with Eddie Obeid.

 

 

Sir Joh and co was another example I was thinking of along the same lines (for those old enough to remember)

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Fixed terms (or more specifically fixed election dates) you end up with a situation like we have now where the last third of a term is spent electioneering rather than governing, unless of course they believe the result to be a foregone conclusion in their favour. A limited number of terms in office can get rid of good leaders and replace them with crap ones.

 

What you need is a system which cannot be manipulated by a few to control the bulk. Obeid was brought up before. There was an example where fixed terms for premiers would have done nothing. He was controlling things from behind the scenes. Replacing one puppet with another at the top does nothing. Look at Russia at the moment. Over here in WA Brian Burke is still a massive influence in the Labor Party in spite of all that he has done wrong. Why?

 

The answer is because of the way the ALP is set up. An individual's power in the caucus depends on the number of votes they control. The number of votes they control is dependent on the number of constituents they represent in the case of a union. A union which joins with 1000 members gets 1000 votes (proxy votes if you like) as if every individual in that union had joined separately. An individual joing gets one vote. So if you control one of the big unions you have significant control. The indvidual Labor member or even a large band of them has no power to stop the union controlled votes from setting the agenda. That's why all the good seats go to buddies of the unions and why they can control the party. Not only that but as a parliamentary member of the ALP you will be ejected if your vote in parliament does not go along with the caucus decision. It's this design which has created opportunity for the likes of Obeid and Burke to have undue control.

 

Sir Joh was a different case altogether. He was, as many would remember, very popular publicly. His party kept him there because they were benefiting from his popularity. The fact that the public and his party were either ignorant of or unwilling to tackle the rampant corruption is not a result of the system other than the desire to stay in power.

 

What we should have is longer terms. Up to ten years would be satisfactory. Of course there would need to be a means to dispose of them early if absolute wrong doing was evident. The biggest flaw in our current system is that the governing party always has one eye on the next election. Important decisions with short term pain but long term benefits are never even considered and many good ideas are ignored because they would take too long to show results and there is a risk that the opposition ends up getting to take the glory. The current system just rewards short term, risk-averse thinking and that's not good for the country.

 

In the Liberal/National parties the leaders can and regularly do get rolled on decisions by the grass roots (particularly evident during pre-selection) because in order to control a majority of the internal vioting power you need to convince others to vote with you. You don't automatically control their vote like you do in the ALP. That's why there is more of a diversity in the coalition parties than there is in the ALP and why, contrary to popular belief, the little guy has more of a chance of success there. As ridiculous as it sounds the Liberals have always lead the way with gender equality in parliament for that very reason. People get seats and power through decisions on how valuable they are to the party, not on who they know and how they can be controlled.

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Closest Australia ever came to Utopia. I thank Gough for my virtually free University education. Just got in before the fees.

 

I always thought you were about 28 :)

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Someone remind me why they dumped Rudd again?

 

Howard had lost touch with the people IMO. No action on aboriginal issues, environment etc

 

Also, I wonder why the banks aren't subject to the super profits tax? Or are they?

It's a shame the govt doesn't have a bank for the people, hmmmm

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Someone remind me why they dumped Rudd again?

 

 

 

I think simply his own party didn't like to work as hard as he wanted them to, and didn't like him calling them lazy f***ers.

 

I know he keeps saying he won't challenge. I reckon he's waiting till they go - please sir, may we have some more. He wants them to beg. Couldn't blame him either. Won't save them, but may save a few of their seats. I think they were saying the polls recently show that every other option other than Rudd is less popular than Goolia. So their best option to not go like Qld and WA is to beg for forgiveness and ask him back. I still have no doubt had they not dumped him they wouldn't have this stupid minority govt thing to deal with.

 

With another new policy idea (this media thing) on the nose it could be the last straw.

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Short memories. Rudd was dumped because he was publicly very unpopular ( not Julia unpopular but pretty bad) and they were going to lose the election with him. The fact that the rest of the party hated him just made it easier for the controlling interests to do so without internal dissent. After two and a half years of stuffing everything up and achieving nothing all of a sudden Julia had a mining tax without the fight with the big miners ( wonder why, hey) and had dropped the toxic carbon tax and now they were " moving forward". The bounce in the polls and agreeing to be shafted by the Greens and independents ( all of whom seem to have been led to and betrayed at some stage) only just got them over the line.

 

Staying with Julia is political suicide but they can't go back to Rudd. There's too much footage out there of his own party members ( and senior ones at that) tearing him down. The Libs won't even need script writers for their campaign.

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Caught a bit of Q&A last night before turning in. Good to see the laborites are back to trotting out the "The poll results are due to sexist people not liking Julia because she is a woman" line

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Or the juicy conspiracy theory.... Rudd got scared because Mining publicly said something along the lines of "If I was Kevin Rudd I wouldn't leave my house" Why? is this a threat? because he would be embarrassed to be Rudd? or did he mean the house of parliament? - if so I think it was before K had made any mention publicly. I was surprised that this passed without comment or question. Then in the next week or so the plane went down in the Congo with the mining exec's.

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Fun & games in our part of the world at both a State (N T'lands) and C'wlth (New England) level.

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Wonder if Kevie puts his hand up. Be funny if he doesn't. Not like he needs the money with his sugar mummy ;)

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I know, but wouldn't it be funny! None of the other options are any more popular with - pretty much anyone.

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He cant wait to roll Julia.

Biggest egomaniac in the history of Australian politics

 

 

 

But man he has some great teachers. Tinny, I know you are old enough to remember Hawke and Keating!

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