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Everything posted by Turts

  1. Respecting the Race

    Nah. In his report he says he thought about stopping, but saw others there so didnt. As a fellow competitor who was right there, and had spoken encouragement just beforehand, i think he should have stopped. Even just for a bit.
  2. Respecting the Race

    NOTE: Please keep it clean, and not personal. The PJ thread was justifiably shut down. This isn’t about individuals – but my take on the amount that’s seems to be being said. The vibe of it. So there has been a lot of talk about pros finishing to “respect the race”. But I have a bit of a contrasting opinion to share. I disagree with the rhetoric about finishing regardless, as the only way of showing respect for the race – and that pulling out disrespects others and the race. Imagine an athlete who is a top level, pro, but having a rubbish day [or anyone really]. Through injury or illness, lack of preparation, lack of fitness, however. Even mechanicals. This athlete has 2 choices. 1. Suck it up, dial it back, and finish the race in umpteenth position 2. Bail out. Underdone, overcooked, whatever. Option 1 seems to be seen as the only thing to do – to “respect” the race. Those who take option 2 receive a lot of derision and sh#t-canning for disrespecting the race and the other races – even disrespecting the winner. But I don’t get it. The way I am arguing, if someone has a bad day and is going to finish slower than hoped, by taking Option 1, they are basically saying “yeah, I’m not going to win, but this race is easy, the course is easy, and even if I’m injured and feel like shit I can still finish easily.” If they bail out, they could be saying “ yep, this race kicked my ass. I’m overcooked/underdone/sick/injured, and either way the race/course/tactics/competitors etc got the better of me and kicked my ass. The winner still knows that they were the best out there on the day, and beat all others who attempted the course. Those they beat are made up of those that tried but weren’t fast enough, AND those that had their ass kicked on the day (either mentally or physically) and DNF’d. I don’t understand the psychology of saying that it’s disrespecting the race to pull out – and admit the race/competitors/situation beat you. I think, in a way, the option to continue regardless is less about respect – but about an athletes ego, sponsor time, camera opportunities, and subsequent media attention as being a hard nut and a good athlete. And they sure do get a lot of media beat up about it – including the bandwagon everyone’s on about finishing=respect. I don’t think it’s fair to berate someone who ignores their ego and possible media ops, to admit the race beat them. Thoughts?? (sorry in advance if this turns roxii But hopefully we can keep it “respectful” and not personal. )
  3. Respecting the Race

    I like the article, but 2 things I noted – He was riding with Matt Russel when he was slammed. I think he should have stopped, regardless. Yes, he thought about quitting, and didn’t. He says “Physically, mentally, emotionally. I don’t know if I ever can or will be able to do something that hard again. I feel like it took a couple of years off my life!” – so there is a cost to finishing at all costs. If that level of commitment to finish one race regardless of the time puts you in a bad place for a long time to come and to the detriment of your career, (as seems to have happened to another high profile aussie pro) that’s pretty extreme. And maybe not the smartest choice career-wise long term.
  4. Respecting the Race

    Interesting report here http://www.triathlete.com/2017/10/ironman/jesse-thomas-kona-race-report-hard_307597
  5. 2017 age group world champs

    Whos in? I made sprint and std, but picked std. So Turts is in for Standard
  6. Respecting the Race

    I understand your point. But if the punters, sponsors and event organisers support that behaviour then that is what they will get. If its not tolerated, those characters will not get invited to races, won't get sponsorship or any social media space. The sport will evolve into what people want to see. It's driven by everyday people and race related companies. They will go where the money is and won't let it devolve into a sh#tfight if it's not in their interests As for Kyrios and tennis, there is a sector of the public that enjoys it. He gets plenty of media attention, gets invitations to tournaments, and maintains sponsorship. He is essentially being rewarded (or at least not punished) for that behaviour. That will always be in a minority, but if others see that bad behaviour is rewarded, the numbers will increase. If it's weeded out, the sport will change. You can't force that stuff in such a dispersed demographic.
  7. Respecting the Race

    This has been a good discussion of age groupers expectations of pros. Lets keep it clean and nice eh?
  8. Respecting the Race

    I personally think they should be able to do what they want. They nominate/pay etc to get a pro ticket. They will be "rewarded" for what they put in to the race from sponsors, prizemoney, etc. How they behave is their decision - those that do what the sponsors want will benefit from said sponsors. Those that race for themselves and make different decisions will perhaps have different outcomes. The final outcome for the sport will depend on the drivers. If the age groupers want the pros to finish no matter what, then they MAY have the capacity to influence the preference for those characteristics by supporting sponsors and races that support those athletes. But from what I see, sponsors and events use pros to promote a product or event purely to drive MORE regular people to it. Quite often, (I would hazard a guess the majority of) those regular people don't give a flying squirrel whether their sponsored pro comes 33rd walking or DNF's. Also, most brands sponsor a range of athletes with mixed attitudes and outcomes. Wurf set a bike record on a Pinarello. Jan got all the glory just for finishing, after the bike leg (on a Canyon) appeared to cause his run issues. The sport will evolve to what the punters (as a majority) want, and what the punters "reward". And for me, most "punters" are regular folks wanting to have a go, who want fun, safe, supportive, and cheap races. In a way, getting pros there just drives prices up.
  9. Matt Russell crash in Kona (Bad)

    Above here
  10. Respecting the Race

    Interesting conversation folks. Good to see the variety of opinions and reasoning.
  11. $500 can save you 2.4 watts

    So if i replace the chain and both pulleys, can i get 10 w? Ill have it in red thanks. Everyone knows reds faster
  12. Respecting the Race

    Im not the one making assertions
  13. Respecting the Race

    You would have to actually put in the effort to find out exactly why they DNF'd - something that might be impossible to find out. And judgement without facts is unfair. Pros SHOULD be more capable of finishing the course without a DNF - in theory. But they also, for the most part, (obviously not all) lay more on the line. Perhaps a bit more go till you blow. Burgs and Wurf took swim and bike primes. But faded. They took a chance and it didn't pay off. Who's to say others didn't do the same and actually blew? Or pulled up lame? And didn't want to risk digging into a massive hole for no benefit? Again, useless info without context.
  14. Respecting the Race

    And again, there is a lot of credit given to events that have a high DNF rate. Does that mean the winners (or survivors) are of any less value? Does it mean all those pros took a bunk because they didn't feel like it? Sometimes it's also about being aspirational. Trying something you're not sure you can do. If you can great. If it turns out you bit off more than you can chew? Learn for next time. It aint all bad. If no one took any chances or entered a race they weren't sure they were completely prepared for, there'd be bugger all races or entrants. Including a heck of a lot of trannies. I don't give a flying f what the pros do. I don't feel they owe me anything. It's their profession yes. I'm a participant. .
  15. Respecting the Race

    Bit of a dodgy comparison. How far do you want someone to go to finish if they are busted up? Just because they're a pro doesn't mean they are invincible. Some issues you can stretch or run through - like a muscle spasm. Absolute fatigue, heat exhaustion etc you can't always. But I guess it could be someone that did the yards they thought was necessary to deliver the project, but was really crook on the day of the final presentation and couldn't finish it off. Again, you're comparing leaving in a sook versus having a valid deficiency on the day of the race
  16. Respecting the Race

    I think there’s some double-dutch going on here. There’s a difference between someone quitting because they don’t want to get beaten and then making a lame excuse like a mechanical, and someone who pulls out because on the day they didn’t have enough in the body and/or mind to finish. The winner still beat that person, because that person was beaten by the course/conditions that the winner survived. It’s a huuuuge difference. There seems to be a lot of labelling that anyone pulling out is quitting because they are a bad competitor.
  17. Respecting the Race

    Theres "hard", and theres "too hard". The differnce lies in the person and the circumstances. Theres a lot of hyperbole about finishing races that have a high attrition rate. Are they actually less worthy?
  18. Respecting the Race

    I'm only selecting you're zed as it was the easiest to pick. Not picking on you specifically. But, my question still stands - if we don't know all the details, WHY do pros owe it to the race to finish? How does it maintain integrity? These phrases get bandied around a lot, but I don't understand it. Does someone pulling out lessen the achievement of the winner? (unless of course everyone else pulls out). Integrity is doing your best with what you have at the time. Who are we to judge someones best at that specific point they decide either way? What is it about triathlon that gets its integrity from people actually finishing, as opposed to having a go?
  19. Respecting the Race

    So there is some agreement then. Immediate dissing of someone for not finishing is not justified and not always fair. There are many reasons someone may bail, and we, as internet stalkers, are not always privy to all the details and the mindset of the competitor. Even if they come out and say something on social media, chances are high it’s not the full story. As for the psychological damage from quitting, the converse can also be true. On a personal note, I suffered greatly through IM Melb in 2012. I really wanted to quit but in the end I didn’t. I pushed through to finish – but at a mental cost. It took me a long long time to even want to think about triathlon again after that. I had no physical injury – I was just underdone with overly optimistic expectations. In contrast, I pulled out of the TNF100 at km 60 as I felt like crap. I didn’t want to endanger others by pushing on and needing to be assisted in the back part of the course. Or risking my own long term health. I wish I hadn’t had to pull out, but mentally I know I did the right thing for me at the time. I respected the course in my way by admitting it was tougher than I had to give. (turns out I was really ill, but I didn't know that for another 4 months)
  20. Respecting the Race

    I think theres a difference between a one on one competition (team or solo) like tennis or footy. Or a mass participation individual sport. And didnt he walked off in a sook because he didnt like the umpies call?
  21. Matt Russell crash in Kona (Bad)

    What race day insurance would he be eligible for? (Not including suing the crap pu of race management)
  22. Matt Russell crash in Kona (Bad)

    Back on topic. Fundraising page from FB link https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1461320900571377&id=464628876907256 https://www.youcaring.com/gillianrussell-981213
  23. Achilles Tendonitis

    Would Anusol from the supermarket do the same thing without the akward giggling?